1 Republican argues for a narrower approach to changing a 19th century voting law

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1 Republican argues for a narrower approach to changing a 19th century voting law

Transcript¹

NPR's Steve Inskeep talks to former Congressman² Zach Wamp, a Republican from Tennessee, about efforts to rewrite the Electoral Count Act.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

Is there any way for election reforms to pass the Senate? A Democratic-led voting bill failed last week, blocked by two Democrats³ and unanimous Republican opposition⁴, but some Republicans maintain they might support narrower changes. They reject federal standards for how Americans vote, but say they might accept reforms to what happens after a vote.

Zach Wamp, a former Republican congressman from Tennessee, supports the change from his perch⁵ in a group called Issue One. He wants to address a delusion⁶ that motivated the January 6 attack on the Capitol.

ZACH WAMP: Many people were led to believe in 2020 that the Congress and the vice⁷ president could overturn the results.

INSKEEP: Legally, Congress could not. But Wamp would like to strengthen the law to make that more clear.

WAMP: The only time under the Constitution that the Congress is supposed to be able to object is if, under the Electoral Count Act of 1887, if the votes by the Electoral College were not regularly given. Now, that's archaic⁸ language in that bill.

INSKEEP: The old law grew out of a disputed election after the Civil War. Zach Wamp would like to update it to withstand a new era of bogus objections to election results.

WAMP: This is a historical tradition that we accept the results of the election, and the loser actually accepts the results as well. But we're now in a rancid political environment where either party is totally capable of not accepting the results and potentially creating such controversy⁹, unless you clarify the law as to what the role is, where the Congress could try to overturn the election.

INSKEEP: Well, let's talk this through for a moment. It seems to me that, on one level, the law is clear. Vice President Pence, who was presiding over the joint¹⁰ session of Congress, looked into this. Constitutional scholars looked into this. It obviously was simply a lie that Congress had the authority to somehow overturn the will of the people and change the results of the election. Why would you need to clarify the law when it already was clear to the scholars who looked at it at the time?

WAMP: Well, there were certain members of the United States Senate who used the terms regularly given to say that there were election disputes in states like Wisconsin, and therefore it wasn't regularly given. Because that's the original statute¹¹, which is - again, that's language from 135 years ago. Regularly given then meant that maybe somebody in the Electoral College was held at gunpoint or they were bribed¹². We actually have to clarify the law to say that unless the Electoral College somewhere in this country was actually disrupted by something like that - like somebody was held at gunpoint before they submitted their results - then all the role is for the Congress is to count the votes.

INSKEEP: You want to make it very clear to any potential future lawmaker, you can't listen to talk radio about this, you can't listen to any random¹³ conspiracy¹⁴ theorist on a website, or you can't listen to someone who wants to overturn an election. You have to go with the will of the people, as it was expressed, state by state.

WAMP: That's exactly right, especially if all 50 states did not object to the certification of the Electoral College three weeks prior. And that's what happened in 2020.

INSKEEP: Do you face a special challenge here because you are dealing¹⁵ with a segment of the population driven by a large segment of media who, regardless of what the law says, are going to live in a fantasy and tell you that the law says what they want it to say?

WAMP: Yeah, that's one of the problems. Misinformation in the modern age is maybe the greatest threat that we face in this country, and we've seen it more and more in the last 20 years as our country has become more and more tribal¹⁶. And that's the risk. That's the danger for the whole nation, is if we get to a place, like in 2024 - if it's worse than 2020, then confidence in the peaceful transfer of power will erode¹⁷. And I just got to tell you, that's when this experiment known as the American republic, can come to an end. It can come unraveled if we don't have confidence in elections. What we're trying to do, in a bipartisan way, is put the country above any partisan¹⁸ advantage today so that we can carry out free and fair elections every two years and four years.

INSKEEP: I'm glad that you said any partisan advantage. Democrats are pretty firmly convinced that in dozens of states in the past year, Republicans have changed the rules to tilt¹⁹ the playing field in their direction. Why wouldn't you do something about that?

WAMP: Well, because we can't federalize elections. And frankly²⁰, the state of Georgia has the ability, with their legislature and their governor, to do the right thing. And they changed their laws - and I would say the vast majority of the changes they made actually were seen by the bipartisan analyst²¹ as improvements to the current system. In fact, there's a national bipartisan agreement on certain things that need to be done. And Georgia's one of the states that comes completely in compliance²² with these things like a certain period of time for early voting. The only thing in Georgia that people complained about was they wanted some legislative²³ supervision²⁴ over the independent election administrators²⁵. And, you know, we think they need to be left independent.

INSKEEP: OK, we need to pause this interview with Zach Wamp for a moment because Georgia's law is so intensely debated. It is one of the states where Republicans changed election rules in the past year. Georgia's measure, as finally passed, has many provisions. Some of them expand voter access, while others do raise the barriers to voting, like limiting ballot²⁶ drop boxes or toughening ID rules for absentee and mail-in ballots²⁷.

Zach Wamp's main concern is not any of that. His worry about Georgia is partisan officials overturning an election result after the votes are cast, which happens to be the same thing that he wants to prevent at the federal level. Here's the rest of our conversation.

Let me also ask about your party. You pointed²⁸ out that you may well have Mitch McConnell on board and plenty of Republicans in the Senate on board with the idea of reforming the laws that apply to how the votes are counted after people vote, at least that much reform. Are you also receiving blowback from your party for touching²⁹ this issue at all in this way?

WAMP: Well, sure. I mean, our party is divided. You know, you have one faction³⁰ that still wants to look back and say that something was terribly wrong in 2020. And then you have other people, even like Sean Hannity, saying this is not a good narrative³¹ to keep talking about. We need to talk about what's going on right now with inflation and the economy and people struggling. And so the party is divided. But, you know, again, patriots³² will rise above these moments and do what's best for the country. I'll guarantee you those that have fought for these privileges of voting would want us to do no less.

INSKEEP: Zach Wamp is a former Republican congressman from Tennessee and the co-chairman of the ReFormers Caucus³³ at Issue One. Mr. Wamp, it's a pleasure talking with you. Thank you so much.

WAMP: Thank you.

(SOUNDBITE OF U-ZHAAN'S "CITY CREATURES")

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 Congressman   

n.（美）国会议员

参考例句：

• He related several anecdotes about his first years as a congressman.他讲述自己初任议员那几年的几则轶事。
• The congressman is meditating a reply to his critics.这位国会议员正在考虑给他的批评者一个答复。

3 democrats   

n.民主主义者，民主人士( democrat的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The Democrats held a pep rally on Capitol Hill yesterday. 民主党昨天在国会山召开了竞选誓师大会。
• The democrats organize a filibuster in the senate. 民主党党员组织了阻挠议事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

4 opposition   

n.反对，敌对

参考例句：

• The party leader is facing opposition in his own backyard.该党领袖在自己的党內遇到了反对。
• The police tried to break down the prisoner's opposition.警察设法制住了那个囚犯的反抗。

5 perch   

n.栖木，高位，杆；v.栖息，就位，位于

参考例句：

• The bird took its perch.鸟停歇在栖木上。
• Little birds perch themselves on the branches.小鸟儿栖歇在树枝上。

6 delusion   

n.谬见，欺骗，幻觉，迷惑

参考例句：

• He is under the delusion that he is Napoleon.他患了妄想症，认为自己是拿破仑。
• I was under the delusion that he intended to marry me.我误认为他要娶我。

7 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

8 archaic   

adj.(语言、词汇等)古代的，已不通用的

参考例句：

• The company does some things in archaic ways,such as not using computers for bookkeeping.这个公司有些做法陈旧，如记账不使用电脑。
• Shaanxi is one of the Chinese archaic civilized origins which has a long history.陕西省是中国古代文明发祥之一，有悠久的历史。

9 controversy   

n.争论，辩论，争吵

参考例句：

• That is a fact beyond controversy.那是一个无可争论的事实。
• We ran the risk of becoming the butt of every controversy.我们要冒使自己在所有的纷争中都成为众矢之的的风险。

10 joint   

adj.联合的，共同的；n.关节，接合处；v.连接，贴合

参考例句：

• I had a bad fall,which put my shoulder out of joint.我重重地摔了一跤，肩膀脫臼了。
• We wrote a letter in joint names.我们联名写了封信。

11 statute   

n.成文法，法令，法规；章程，规则，条例

参考例句：

• Protection for the consumer is laid down by statute.保障消费者利益已在法令里作了规定。
• The next section will consider this environmental statute in detail.下一部分将详细论述环境法令的问题。

12 bribed   

v.贿赂( bribe的过去式和过去分词 )；向（某人）行贿，贿赂

参考例句：

• They bribed him with costly presents. 他们用贵重的礼物贿赂他。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》
• He bribed himself onto the committee. 他暗通关节，钻营投机挤进了委员会。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》

13 random   

adj.随机的；任意的；n.偶然的(或随便的)行动

参考例句：

• The list is arranged in a random order.名单排列不分先后。
• On random inspection the meat was found to be bad.经抽查，发现肉变质了。

14 conspiracy   

n.阴谋，密谋，共谋

参考例句：

• The men were found guilty of conspiracy to murder.这些人被裁决犯有阴谋杀人罪。
• He claimed that it was all a conspiracy against him.他声称这一切都是一场针对他的阴谋。

15 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。

16 tribal   

adj.部族的，种族的

参考例句：

• He became skilled in several tribal lingoes.他精通几种部族的语言。
• The country was torn apart by fierce tribal hostilities.那个国家被部落间的激烈冲突弄得四分五裂。

17 erode   

v.侵蚀，腐蚀，使...减少、减弱或消失

参考例句：

• Once exposed,soil is quickly eroded by wind and rain.一旦暴露在外，土壤很快就会被风雨侵蚀。
• Competition in the financial marketplace has eroded profits.金融市场的竞争降低了利润。

18 partisan   

adj.党派性的；游击队的；n.游击队员；党徒

参考例句：

• In their anger they forget all the partisan quarrels.愤怒之中，他们忘掉一切党派之争。
• The numerous newly created partisan detachments began working slowly towards that region.许多新建的游击队都开始慢慢地向那里移动。

19 tilt   

v.(使)倾侧；(使)倾斜；n.倾侧；倾斜

参考例句：

• She wore her hat at a tilt over her left eye.她歪戴着帽子遮住左眼。
• The table is at a slight tilt.这张桌子没放平，有点儿歪.

20 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

21 analyst   

n.分析家，化验员；心理分析学家

参考例句：

• What can you contribute to the position of a market analyst?你有什么技能可有助于市场分析员的职务？
• The analyst is required to interpolate values between standards.分析人员需要在这些标准中插入一些值。

22 compliance   

n.顺从；服从；附和；屈从

参考例句：

• I was surprised by his compliance with these terms.我对他竟然依从了这些条件而感到吃惊。
• She gave up the idea in compliance with his desire.她顺从他的愿望而放弃自己的主意。

23 legislative   

n.立法机构，立法权；adj.立法的，有立法权的

参考例句：

• Congress is the legislative branch of the U.S. government.国会是美国政府的立法部门。
• Today's hearing was just the first step in the legislative process.今天的听证会只是展开立法程序的第一步。

24 supervision   

n.监督，管理

参考例句：

• The work was done under my supervision.这项工作是在我的监督之下完成的。
• The old man's will was executed under the personal supervision of the lawyer.老人的遗嘱是在律师的亲自监督下执行的。

25 administrators   

n.管理者( administrator的名词复数 )；有管理（或行政）才能的人；（由遗嘱检验法庭指定的）遗产管理人；奉派暂管主教教区的牧师

参考例句：

• He had administrators under him but took the crucial decisions himself. 他手下有管理人员，但重要的决策仍由他自己来做。 来自辞典例句
• Administrators have their own methods of social intercourse. 办行政的人有他们的社交方式。 来自汉英文学 - 围城

26 ballot   

n.（不记名）投票，投票总数，投票权；vi.投票

参考例句：

• The members have demanded a ballot.会员们要求投票表决。
• The union said they will ballot members on whether to strike.工会称他们将要求会员投票表决是否罢工。

27 ballots   

n.投票表决( ballot的名词复数 )；选举；选票；投票总数v.（使）投票表决( ballot的第三人称单数 )

参考例句：

• They're counting the ballots. 他们正在计算选票。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The news of rigged ballots has rubbed off much of the shine of their election victory. 他们操纵选票的消息使他们在选举中获得的胜利大为减色。 来自《简明英汉词典》

28 pointed   

adj.尖的，直截了当的

参考例句：

• He gave me a very sharp pointed pencil.他给我一支削得非常尖的铅笔。
• She wished to show Mrs.John Dashwood by this pointed invitation to her brother.她想通过对达茨伍德夫人提出直截了当的邀请向她的哥哥表示出来。

29 touching   

adj.动人的，使人感伤的

参考例句：

• It was a touching sight.这是一幅动人的景象。
• His letter was touching.他的信很感人。

30 faction   

n.宗派，小集团；派别；派系斗争

参考例句：

• Faction and self-interest appear to be the norm.派系之争和自私自利看来非常普遍。
• I now understood clearly that I was caught between the king and the Bunam's faction.我现在完全明白自己已陷入困境，在国王与布纳姆集团之间左右为难。

31 narrative   

n.叙述，故事；adj.叙事的，故事体的

参考例句：

• He was a writer of great narrative power.他是一位颇有记述能力的作家。
• Neither author was very strong on narrative.两个作者都不是很善于讲故事。

32 patriots   

爱国者，爱国主义者( patriot的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Abraham Lincoln was a fine type of the American patriots. 亚伯拉罕·林肯是美国爱国者的优秀典型。
• These patriots would fight to death before they surrendered. 这些爱国者宁愿战斗到死，也不愿投降。

33 caucus   

n.秘密会议；干部会议；v.（参加）干部开会议

参考例句：

• This multi-staged caucus takes several months.这个多级会议常常历时好几个月。
• It kept the Democratic caucus from fragmenting.它也使得民主党的核心小组避免了土崩瓦解的危险。