美国国家公共电台 NPR--The House committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack votes to subpoena Trump

The House committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack votes to subpoena¹ Trump²

Transcript³

NPR's Leila Fadel talks to Democratic Rep. Jamie Raskin of Maryland, a member of the panel, about the interest the subpoena has generated, and whether former President Donald Trump will comply.

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

The House committee investigating the January 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol wants answers from Donald Trump.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

BENNIE THOMPSON: This is a question about accountability to the American people. He must be accountable. He is required to answer for his actions. He is required to answer to those police officers who put their lives and bodies on the line to defend our democracy.

FADEL: That's committee chair Bennie Thompson of Mississippi during a hearing that closed with the panel unanimously voting to subpoena the former president's testimony⁴ and documents. Yesterday's hearing summed up a year-and-a-half-long investigation⁵ that found former President Trump pushed the big lie that the election was stolen, even though he knew he lost, that he pressured state officials and his own vice⁶ president to overturn the results and that he summoned a violent mob to the Capitol to stop the peaceful transfer of power. We're joined now by one of the nine January 6 committee members, Democratic Representative Jamie Raskin of Maryland. Good morning, Congressman⁷.

JAMIE RASKIN: Good morning. Thanks so much for having me.

FADEL: Thank you for being here. So, Congressman, let's start with that big question. Will Trump comply with the subpoena?

RASKIN: Well, of course, that's going to be up to him, although we've talked to more than a thousand people now, and the vast majority of people that we've contacted or subpoenaed⁸ have recognized that this is both a legal duty and also a civic⁹ opportunity. And many people have told us that they felt it's their patriotic¹⁰ obligation to come forward, to share whatever knowledge they have with the committee as we investigate this worst mass violent domestic assault on Congress in our history. So...

FADEL: But have his lawyers indicated that he will, or has there been any indication that he'll comply?

RASKIN: Well, remember, yesterday we just voted to direct the chairman to render a subpoena to Donald Trump. It hasn't happened yet. He hasn't sent it. So we've not been in touch with them, at least as far as I know. But again, you know, before we - everybody wants to talk about, well, will he do it, or what if he won't do it, and what would we do in that case and so on.

FADEL: Right.

RASKIN: And I just want everybody to focus for a moment, at least, on what you would do, wherever you are, if you had information about this attack. Would you come forward and talk to the representatives of the American people, or would you blow it off like Steve Bannon did, who now has been convicted of contempt of Congress for simply thinking that he's somehow above and beyond the law?

FADEL: Well, on that note, what would you do if former President Trump rebuffs your subpoena? Would it be a similar situation?

RASKIN: Well, I mean, that's the hypothetical I don't really want to entertain at this point just because I want people to focus on what it means for a former president of the United States to say, well, obviously, I was at the center of these events - according to everything we found, he was the driving factor behind every element of the assault on democracy - but I'm not going to participate.

Now, in the criminal context, we couldn't even comment on his refusal to testify because of the Fifth Amendment¹¹ privilege against self-incrimination. But in the civil context, which is what we're in now, we can comment all we want. And in fact, Justice Scalia, for a unanimous Supreme¹² Court, repeatedly found we can derive¹³ adverse¹⁴ inferences towards the information he has if he refuses to come forward. So essentially¹⁵, he's assenting¹⁶ to our establishment of his central culpability¹⁷ in staging the coup¹⁸ against America and the violent insurrection if he doesn't show up. But look. You know, what can Congress do? We can seek criminal sanctions, as we successfully did against Steve Bannon. We can seek civil...

FADEL: But not Mark Meadows, the former chief of staff.

RASKIN: That's right because he complied substantially before Trump pressured him to disengage from the process. We can go to court to ask for a civil order enforcing the subpoena, and that leads to civil contempt, people being held behind bars until they decide to comply. That's the kind of contempt where the courts have said you hold the keys to your own freedom. All you have to do is meet the subpoena, and then you can get out of jail. Or we could use the inherent power of subpoena and enforcement of subpoena that Congress itself has. Now, that hasn't been used for decades, but the Supreme Court, again, has been emphatic¹⁹ that Congress has the power to enforce its subpoenas²⁰ the same way that courts do.

So, you know, I'm hopeful that - you know, we don't think this is just some kind of poetic²¹ exercise. We really want and expect Donald Trump to come forward and to answer a whole bunch of questions we have about this attack on our constitutional order.

FADEL: Now, so much about this moment is unprecedented²² or feels unprecedented - the attack on the Capitol and many things that have come after. So it feels weird²³, strange to say, well, the subpoena - also unprecedented. But I wonder if this also raises risks. There has already been issues around separation of powers raised. Is the risk of issuing this subpoena worth the further division of the nation, frankly²⁴?

RASKIN: Well, multiple presidents and seven former presidents have come to testify before Congress, several of them voluntarily. At least two of them that we could find - John Tyler and John Quincy Adams - came forward under a subpoena. And John Quincy Adams said, you know, we don't have a title or an office of former president of the United States the way a lot of countries do in their constitution. He said a former president is just a citizen. And of course, citizen is the highest office in the land we have. And those of us who aspire²⁵ and attain²⁶ to public office are nothing but the servants of the people.

So his being a former president does not entitle him to skip out on the law. In fact, multiple people, including his own lawyers in the impeachment²⁷ trial, were saying during the impeachment, well, the real way to deal with Donald Trump is, if there were crimes committed, to subpoena him later.

FADEL: In the final few seconds, I just want to ask, does the work of the committee matter if a large swath of this country doesn't care or trust the investigation? In just a few seconds.

RASKIN: Well, I think increasingly people do trust it. And the work of the committee is essential because in a democracy, people have the right to the truth and the facts about their own government.

FADEL: Representative Jamie Raskin of Maryland, a member of the Select House Committee to investigate the January 6 attack on the United States Capitol. Thank you so much.

RASKIN: You bet.

1 subpoena   

n.（法律）传票；v.传讯

参考例句：

• He was brought up to court with a subpoena.他接到传讯，来到法庭上。
• Select committees have the power to subpoena witnesses.特别委员会有权传唤证人。

2 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

3 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

4 testimony   

n.证词；见证，证明

参考例句：

• The testimony given by him is dubious.他所作的证据是可疑的。
• He was called in to bear testimony to what the police officer said.他被传入为警官所说的话作证。

5 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

6 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

7 Congressman   

n.（美）国会议员

参考例句：

• He related several anecdotes about his first years as a congressman.他讲述自己初任议员那几年的几则轶事。
• The congressman is meditating a reply to his critics.这位国会议员正在考虑给他的批评者一个答复。

8 subpoenaed   

v.（用传票）传唤（某人）( subpoena的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• The court subpoenaed her to appear as a witness. 法庭传唤她出庭作证。
• The finance director is subpoenaed by prosecution. 财务经理被检查机关传讯。 来自《简明英汉词典》

9 civic   

adj.城市的，都市的，市民的，公民的

参考例句：

• I feel it is my civic duty to vote.我认为投票选举是我作为公民的义务。
• The civic leaders helped to forward the project.市政府领导者协助促进工程的进展。

10 patriotic   

adj.爱国的，有爱国心的

参考例句：

• His speech was full of patriotic sentiments.他的演说充满了爱国之情。
• The old man is a patriotic overseas Chinese.这位老人是一位爱国华侨。

11 amendment   

n.改正，修正，改善，修正案

参考例句：

• The amendment was rejected by 207 voters to 143.这项修正案以207票对143票被否决。
• The Opposition has tabled an amendment to the bill.反对党已经就该议案提交了一项修正条款。

12 supreme   

adj.极度的，最重要的；至高的，最高的

参考例句：

• It was the supreme moment in his life.那是他一生中最重要的时刻。
• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。

13 derive   

v.取得；导出；引申；来自；源自；出自

参考例句：

• We derive our sustenance from the land.我们从土地获取食物。
• We shall derive much benefit from reading good novels.我们将从优秀小说中获得很大好处。

14 adverse   

adj.不利的；有害的；敌对的，不友好的

参考例句：

• He is adverse to going abroad.他反对出国。
• The improper use of medicine could lead to severe adverse reactions.用药不当会产生严重的不良反应。

15 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

16 assenting   

同意，赞成( assent的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• In an assembly, every thing must be done by speaking and assenting. 在一个群集中，任何事情都必须通过发言和同意来进行。
• Assenting to this demands. 对这个要求让步。

17 culpability   

n.苛责，有罪

参考例句：

• As if the estrangement between them had come of any culpability of hers. 姐弟俩疏远的责任竟仿佛落到了她的身上！ 来自英汉文学 - 双城记
• The offence, as now defined in English law, covers a wide spectrum of culpability. 英国法律规定，违法包括很多种过失行为。 来自互联网

18 coup   

n.政变；突然而成功的行动

参考例句：

• The monarch was ousted by a military coup.那君主被军事政变者废黜了。
• That government was overthrown in a military coup three years ago.那个政府在3年前的军事政变中被推翻。

19 emphatic   

adj.强调的，着重的；无可置疑的，明显的

参考例句：

• Their reply was too emphatic for anyone to doubt them.他们的回答很坚决，不容有任何人怀疑。
• He was emphatic about the importance of being punctual.他强调严守时间的重要性。

20 subpoenas   

n.（传唤出庭的）传票( subpoena的名词复数 )v.（用传票）传唤（某人）( subpoena的第三人称单数 )

参考例句：

• My company has complied with committee subpoenas by supplying documents confirming all that I have said. 本公司按照委员会的要求，提供了能够证实我刚才发言的文件。 来自辞典例句
• Congressional Investigations: Subpoenas and Contempt Power. Report for Congress April 2, 2003. 金灿荣：《美国国会的监督功能》，载《教学与研究》2003年第2期。 来自互联网

21 poetic   

adj.富有诗意的，有诗人气质的，善于抒情的

参考例句：

• His poetic idiom is stamped with expressions describing group feeling and thought.他的诗中的措辞往往带有描写群体感情和思想的印记。
• His poetic novels have gone through three different historical stages.他的诗情小说创作经历了三个不同的历史阶段。

22 unprecedented   

adj.无前例的，新奇的

参考例句：

• The air crash caused an unprecedented number of deaths.这次空难的死亡人数是空前的。
• A flood of this sort is really unprecedented.这样大的洪水真是十年九不遇。

23 weird   

adj.古怪的，离奇的；怪诞的，神秘而可怕的

参考例句：

• From his weird behaviour,he seems a bit of an oddity.从他不寻常的行为看来，他好像有点怪。
• His weird clothes really gas me.他的怪衣裳简直笑死人。

24 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

25 aspire   

vi.(to，after)渴望，追求，有志于

参考例句：

• Living together with you is what I aspire toward in my life.和你一起生活是我一生最大的愿望。
• I aspire to be an innovator not a follower.我迫切希望能变成个开创者而不是跟随者。

26 attain   

vt.达到，获得，完成

参考例句：

• I used the scientific method to attain this end. 我用科学的方法来达到这一目的。
• His painstaking to attain his goal in life is praiseworthy. 他为实现人生目标所下的苦功是值得称赞的。

27 impeachment   

n.弹劾；控告；怀疑

参考例句：

• Impeachment is considered a drastic measure in the United States.在美国，弹劾被视为一种非常激烈的措施。
• The verdict resulting from his impeachment destroyed his political career.他遭弹劾后得到的判决毁了他的政治生涯。