美国国家公共电台 NPR--Bob Woodward's new audiobook features hours of his interviews with ex-President Trump

Bob Woodward's new audiobook features hours of his interviews with ex-President Trump¹

Transcript²

NPR's Steve Inskeep talks to Bob Woodward about his recorded interviews with former President Donald Trump, which are featured in The Washington Post journalist's new audio book: The Trump Tapes.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

For those who have not heard enough of Donald Trump, here's an opportunity. Bob Woodward has written three books about Trump, and for one of those books, Trump talked with the journalist for hours, and Woodward usually recorded the conversations. He plays them in an audiobook called "The Trump Tapes."

(SOUNDBITE OF AUDIOBOOK, "THE TRUMP TAPES")

DONALD TRUMP: I have done more for the Black community than any other president other than Abraham Lincoln.

BOB WOODWARD: And Lyndon Johnson.

TRUMP: I say more than Lyndon Johnson.

WOODWARD: Well...

TRUMP: OK. I got criminal justice reform.

WOODWARD: Right.

TRUMP: I did prison reform. I did historically Black colleges and universities. OK?

WOODWARD: This is Trump wanting to sell himself, wanting to convince me he had done all of the proper things. And in the course of it, you see - as I conclude and as the audiotapes show - he did not understand his responsibilities as president.

INSKEEP: Let's play a little bit of these conversations that gets a sense of how Trump makes things about himself and his resentment³ toward his portrayal⁴ in the media, I guess we should note here. Your colleagues Phil Rucker and Carol Leonnig wrote a book about Trump. He appears to have read or learned about it. And it reported that Trump visited the scene of Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor in Hawaii, but he barely seemed to understand it. And he really resented that. Let's listen to your conversation.

(SOUNDBITE OF AUDIOBOOK, "THE TRUMP TAPES")

TRUMP: I have the movies memorized from the time of my kids, like the greatest movies ever. You know, the original Pearl Harbors are better than the modern ones that look like they were done by a computer. I mean, can you imagine - I studied Pearl Harbor. I talk about it all the time with Abe. I talk about kamikaze pilots. I talk about all that stuff. I find - they write in there that I wanted to know, what exactly is Pearl Harbor? No. You know how insulting that is to me? It's so false. They made it up. That's not a leak, Bob, that's - they made it up.

WOODWARD: Well, I'm going to dispute you on that.

TRUMP: All right. That's OK. I don't mind.

WOODWARD: Because I don't think that - if they ever made up something...

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Don't interrupt me. He's a sleaze bucket. I know him well. He never writes good.

INSKEEP: So what are you thinking, Bob Woodward, as the president tells you, he never writes good?

WOODWARD: Well, he - it's one of his grievances⁵. And I know Phil Rucker and Carol Leonnig, colleagues at The Washington Post - they're terrific reporters. Trump is so driven by his internal emotions and reactions. He really can't see past the grievances he has about the media, about the opposition⁶, about the investigations⁷ of him. And what struck me is you hear it in his voice - the anger. He can't step back from his anger, and so...

INSKEEP: He's not acting⁸, is he? I mean, he actually feels as wounded as he says he is.

WOODWARD: I - look. I can't get in his head. All I can do is report. And here you have hours of him as he's dealing⁹ with the major issues of the presidency¹⁰ - the virus, foreign affairs, the constant business of being president. And my final conclusion is you cannot be this disconnected from the job you have. I asked him once, what's the job of the president? He said, to protect the people. Well, on the virus, he totally failed.

INSKEEP: There are portions of his party that are turning against democracy altogether. I could cite an article from just the other day in which the writer says, conservatives need to become radicals¹¹. We need to take over, and maybe we'll give back power later and maybe we won't. Do you think that Trump has any affection for democracy?

WOODWARD: Well, I think he doesn't understand democracy. The January 6 insurrection and the House Committee on that has laid out so much compelling, authoritative¹² evidence. What is the diabolical¹³ genius of what Trump did on January 6 and all of the people who aided him in this - that's the weak spot in the system. The Constitution and the law say January 6, the Congress will certify¹⁴ the winner. This led to Trump's denial, support of the insurrection and most alarming, the unparalleled pressure on Vice¹⁵ President Pence.

INSKEEP: One final thing. If it's true that Trump's election in 2016 was part of closing the door on a phase of American history, what's the phase we're in now?

WOODWARD: We don't know. It's pretty clear to me from my reporting that he's going to run again. He has tens of millions of supporters. The problem and what is so vividly¹⁶ and powerfully demonstrated in these audios is Trump's not comfortable with democracy. It's, you know, it's - because only I know. There is a time in June of 2020 when he's given a law and order speech. And I ask, did anyone help you with that speech? And he says...

(SOUNDBITE OF AUDIOBOOK, "THE TRUMP TAPES")

TRUMP: Yeah, I get people - they come up with ideas, but the ideas are mine, Bob. The ideas are mine. You want to know something? Everything's mine.

WOODWARD: And there is an intimacy¹⁷ in this. But the ideas are mine, Bob. Everything is mine. A declaration of ownership in a democracy where we don't have ownership. We all get to vote. There is a back and forth¹⁸. I remember when I first heard it, I thought, wow, that - and then when I went back this year and listened to this thing - I mean, everything is mine. What? So off the tracks it's almost not explainable. So what do you do as a reporter? You put it all out there and let people decide.

INSKEEP: Bob Woodward has released an audio book called "The Trump Tapes" with recordings¹⁹ of his conversations with former President Donald Trump. Thanks so much.

WOODWARD: Thank you.

1 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

2 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

3 resentment   

n.怨愤，忿恨

参考例句：

• All her feelings of resentment just came pouring out.她一股脑儿倾吐出所有的怨恨。
• She cherished a deep resentment under the rose towards her employer.她暗中对她的雇主怀恨在心。

4 portrayal   

n.饰演；描画

参考例句：

• His novel is a vivid portrayal of life in a mining community.他的小说生动地描绘了矿区的生活。
• The portrayal of the characters in the novel is lifelike.该书中的人物写得有血有肉。

5 grievances   

n.委屈( grievance的名词复数 )；苦衷；不满；牢骚

参考例句：

• The trade union leader spoke about the grievances of the workers. 工会领袖述说工人们的苦情。 来自《现代英汉综合大词典》
• He gave air to his grievances. 他申诉了他的冤情。 来自《简明英汉词典》

6 opposition   

n.反对，敌对

参考例句：

• The party leader is facing opposition in his own backyard.该党领袖在自己的党內遇到了反对。
• The police tried to break down the prisoner's opposition.警察设法制住了那个囚犯的反抗。

7 investigations   

（正式的）调查( investigation的名词复数 )； 侦查； 科学研究； 学术研究

参考例句：

• His investigations were intensive and thorough but revealed nothing. 他进行了深入彻底的调查，但没有发现什么。
• He often sent them out to make investigations. 他常常派他们出去作调查。

8 acting   

n.演戏，行为，假装；adj.代理的，临时的，演出用的

参考例句：

• Ignore her,she's just acting.别理她，她只是假装的。
• During the seventies,her acting career was in eclipse.在七十年代，她的表演生涯黯然失色。

9 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。

10 presidency   

n.总统(校长，总经理)的职位(任期)

参考例句：

• Roosevelt was elected four times to the presidency of the United States.罗斯福连续当选四届美国总统。
• Two candidates are emerging as contestants for the presidency.两位候选人最终成为总统职位竞争者。

11 radicals   

n.激进分子( radical的名词复数 )；根基；基本原理；[数学]根数

参考例句：

• Some militant leaders want to merge with white radicals. 一些好斗的领导人要和白人中的激进派联合。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The worry is that the radicals will grow more intransigent. 现在人们担忧激进分子会变得更加不妥协。 来自辞典例句

12 authoritative   

adj.有权威的，可相信的；命令式的；官方的

参考例句：

• David speaks in an authoritative tone.大卫以命令的口吻说话。
• Her smile was warm but authoritative.她的笑容很和蔼，同时又透着威严。

13 diabolical   

adj.恶魔似的，凶暴的

参考例句：

• This maneuver of his is a diabolical conspiracy.他这一手是一个居心叵测的大阴谋。
• One speaker today called the plan diabolical and sinister.今天一名发言人称该计划阴险恶毒。

14 certify   

vt.证明，证实；发证书(或执照)给

参考例句：

• I can certify to his good character.我可以证明他品德好。
• This swimming certificate is to certify that I can swim one hundred meters.这张游泳证是用以证明我可以游100米远。

15 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

16 vividly   

adv.清楚地，鲜明地，生动地

参考例句：

• The speaker pictured the suffering of the poor vividly.演讲者很生动地描述了穷人的生活。
• The characters in the book are vividly presented.这本书里的人物写得栩栩如生。

17 intimacy   

n.熟悉，亲密，密切关系，亲昵的言行

参考例句：

• His claims to an intimacy with the President are somewhat exaggerated.他声称自己与总统关系密切，这有点言过其实。
• I wish there were a rule book for intimacy.我希望能有个关于亲密的规则。

18 forth   

adv.向前；向外，往外

参考例句：

• The wind moved the trees gently back and forth.风吹得树轻轻地来回摇晃。
• He gave forth a series of works in rapid succession.他很快连续发表了一系列的作品。

19 recordings   

n.记录( recording的名词复数 )；录音；录像；唱片

参考例句：

• a boxed set of original recordings 一套盒装原声录音带
• old jazz recordings reissued on CD 以激光唱片重新发行的老爵士乐