A teacher at American University in Kabul talks about his hopes for Afghanistan

A teacher at American University in Kabul talks about his hopes for Afghanistan

Transcript¹

Six months after the U.S. withdrawal² from Afghanistan, NPR's Leila Fadel speaks to Obaidullah Baheer, a lecturer at the American University in Kabul, about the path forward under the Taliban rule.

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

Today marks six months since Taliban fighters took control of the capital of Afghanistan. Obaidullah Baheer witnessed the day the capital changed.

OBAIDULLAH BAHEER: I think about the day Kabul fell. I walked out, and the world had flipped³ on its head. Like, there were people running around like it was Armageddon, and the Taliban had reached the gates of Kabul.

FADEL: He's a lecturer of transitional justice at the American University in Kabul, and the 31-year-old was a child when the U.S. war and occupation began and an adult when President Biden ended the ground war just under six months ago.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: It is time to end America's longest war. It's time for American troops to come home.

FADEL: Other Afghans who had the opportunity fled, but Baheer stayed in Kabul. We reached him on a visit to the U.S., and I started by asking what life in the capital is like today under Taliban rule.

BAHEER: Kabul now looks drained, feels tired when you're out on the roads. And it's mostly because of the economy, because people don't really have money to travel with, jobs to go to - feels very grim at times.

FADEL: You know, you talk about people having no work, no job to go to, no money to access. The head of the World Food Programme called Afghanistan the worst humanitarian⁴ disaster on Earth right now - millions of people on the brink⁵ of starvation. The U.N. estimates that almost the entire population will plunge⁶ into poverty by the middle of the year. Why has it gotten so bad?

BAHEER: The warnings have been there, and this was going to happen even in the republic time. WFP and the U.N. had warned of alarming child malnutrition⁷ levels in Afghanistan, and Afghanistan already had a very large population under the poverty line. Afghanistan's 70% budget was aid. So keeping all of that in mind, it was a ticking bomb. And then the Taliban coming into power and so many sanctions being put on Afghanistan just meant that whatever was there - it fell apart.

FADEL: So what should be done? I mean, the Taliban is a reality. It's the de facto government of Afghanistan. There is no alternative, but it's also - there are really huge concerns. I mean, the U.N. report says over 100 former Afghan government and coalition⁸ officials have been killed since the Taliban takeover. And while the Taliban has made promises towards women, towards minority communities, the trust is not there, and it's not always the same on the ground as what is being said in Kabul. What can happen to move forward so that Afghanistan is not a pariah⁹ state?

BAHEER: The failure of the past 20 years was that we kept putting on superficial systems and institutions and expected the whole country to change. First off, the development and the change never trickled¹⁰ down from the urban centers to the larger rural population. But that being said, now is the time to turn towards some indigenous¹¹ organic solutions, which means that the Afghans themselves have to mobilize. And this is something we're working on, a lot of the academics and people who have a voice in Afghanistan so far. We're getting together. We're organizing ourselves.

And the first step is always for a civil society to exist because then we start taking away the othering from the Taliban. Then we are a face that can sit across the table, and they're forced to acknowledge us. Based on the aid work that I'm doing in Afghanistan, the Taliban are engaging with me now, compared to a few months ago, when they wouldn't let me work, when they would pick up my team members. And secondly¹², the international community has huge leverages¹⁴ on the Taliban, including the foreign reserves that are frozen, including the Taliban leadership being on blacklists and so on, so forth¹⁵. Use that leverage¹³ rather than turning around and switching the lights off and saying, if I don't see the Taliban, they don't exist.

FADEL: So it also sounds like you feel like there was a squandered¹⁶ opportunity to leverage these frozen funds to create an outcome that will bring the Taliban in line with what the international community expects of it.

BAHEER: The Taliban have been very problematic, but they did try to reach out to the U.N. They did try to reach out to the U.S. and ask for some sort of establishment of diplomatic ties.

FADEL: How does that work? I mean, are you talking about direct talks between the U.S. and Taliban?

BAHEER: I don't know why the whole discussion of direct talks feels so odd when the United States government bypassed the elected Republic of Afghanistan, sat with the Taliban in Qatar for years, gave them legitimacy¹⁷, helped enable them travel to other countries. Like, they were a government in waiting and all of that. The current administration cannot really sign off on meetings with the Taliban face to face because supposedly there's a reputational cost. There are other alternatives. There's track 1.5 diplomacy¹⁸. There is track 2 diplomacy, where you send organizations that are American but not really owned by the American government, who sit across the table with the Taliban, who communicate expectations.

FADEL: You chose to stay in Afghanistan. You probably did have an opportunity, if you wanted it, to leave. Why did you say I'm going to stay?

BAHEER: I was called by a friend, saying this government-chartered flight was leaving Kabul in the next one hour, and they had put my name on the list because they were sure that I was going to be one of the first people the Taliban would want to come for. And I refused to go. I could relate, growing up with the Taliban because my father had spent 6 1/2 years in American detention¹⁹. My grandfather was out fighting the United States incursion into our country, and I had a million and one reasons to hate the United States, to be part of the fighting. So I could very much have grown up on those mountains with the Taliban and have their thinking. I became someone else, and now it makes me understand where those people are coming from. So I would keep thinking that if I could reconcile two very different versions of the world within me, then why can't Afghanistan do it?

FADEL: Obaidullah Baheer is a lecturer at the American University in Kabul, and we spoke²⁰ as he's visiting the United States. Thank you so much for your time.

BAHEER: Take care of yourself.

(SOUNDBITE OF MANDRILLER'S "CONSIDERED")

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 withdrawal   

n.取回，提款；撤退，撤军；收回，撤销

参考例句：

• The police were forced to make a tactical withdrawal.警方被迫进行战术撤退。
• They insisted upon a withdrawal of the statement and a public apology.他们坚持要收回那些话并公开道歉。

3 flipped   

轻弹( flip的过去式和过去分词 )； 按（开关）； 快速翻转； 急挥

参考例句：

• The plane flipped and crashed. 飞机猛地翻转，撞毁了。
• The carter flipped at the horse with his whip. 赶大车的人扬鞭朝着马轻轻地抽打。

4 humanitarian   

n.人道主义者，博爱者，基督凡人论者

参考例句：

• She has many humanitarian interests and contributes a lot to them.她拥有很多慈善事业，并作了很大的贡献。
• The British government has now suspended humanitarian aid to the area.英国政府现已暂停对这一地区的人道主义援助。

5 brink   

n.(悬崖、河流等的)边缘，边沿

参考例句：

• The tree grew on the brink of the cliff.那棵树生长在峭壁的边缘。
• The two countries were poised on the brink of war.这两个国家处于交战的边缘。

6 plunge   

v.跳入，(使)投入，(使)陷入；猛冲

参考例句：

• Test pool's water temperature before you plunge in.在你跳入之前你应该测试水温。
• That would plunge them in the broil of the two countries.那将会使他们陷入这两国的争斗之中。

7 malnutrition   

n.营养不良

参考例句：

• In Africa, there are a lot of children suffering from severe malnutrition.在非洲有大批严重营养不良的孩子。
• It is a classic case of malnutrition. 这是营养不良的典型病例。

8 coalition   

n.结合体，同盟，结合，联合

参考例句：

• The several parties formed a coalition.这几个政党组成了政治联盟。
• Coalition forces take great care to avoid civilian casualties.联盟军队竭尽全力避免造成平民伤亡。

9 pariah   

n.被社会抛弃者

参考例句：

• Shortly Tom came upon the juvenile pariah of the village.不一会儿，汤姆碰上了村里的少年弃儿。
• His landlady had treated him like a dangerous criminal,a pariah.房东太太对待他就像对待危险的罪犯、对待社会弃儿一样。

10 trickled   

v.滴( trickle的过去式和过去分词 )；淌；使)慢慢走；缓慢移动

参考例句：

• Blood trickled down his face. 血从他脸上一滴滴流下来。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The tears trickled down her cheeks. 热泪一滴滴从她脸颊上滚下来。 来自《简明英汉词典》

11 indigenous   

adj.土产的，土生土长的，本地的

参考例句：

• Each country has its own indigenous cultural tradition.每个国家都有自己本土的文化传统。
• Indians were the indigenous inhabitants of America.印第安人是美洲的土著居民。

12 secondly   

adv.第二，其次

参考例句：

• Secondly,use your own head and present your point of view.第二，动脑筋提出自己的见解。
• Secondly it is necessary to define the applied load.其次，需要确定所作用的载荷。

13 leverage   

n.力量，影响；杠杆作用，杠杆的力量

参考例句：

• We'll have to use leverage to move this huge rock.我们不得不借助杠杆之力来移动这块巨石。
• He failed in the project because he could gain no leverage. 因为他没有影响力，他的计划失败了。

14 leverages   

促使…改变( leverage的第三人称单数 )； [美国英语]杠杆式投机，（使）举债经营，（使）利用贷款进行投机

参考例句：

• Additionally, this approach leverages the benefits of incremental and full backups. 除此之外，这一个作法也使渐近式以及完全的备份变得容易。
• A simple formula for building mutual value-creating relationships with consumers leverages dialogue, data, and insights. 与客户建立共同的价值创造关系，一条简单的准则就是利用对话、数据和洞察力。

15 forth   

adv.向前；向外，往外

参考例句：

• The wind moved the trees gently back and forth.风吹得树轻轻地来回摇晃。
• He gave forth a series of works in rapid succession.他很快连续发表了一系列的作品。

16 squandered   

v.（指钱，财产等）浪费，乱花( squander的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• He squandered all his money on gambling. 他把自己所有的钱都糟蹋在赌博上了。
• She felt as indignant as if her own money had been squandered. 她心里十分生气，好像是她自己的钱给浪费掉了似的。 来自飘（部分）

17 legitimacy   

n.合法，正当

参考例句：

• The newspaper was directly challenging the government's legitimacy.报纸直接质疑政府的合法性。
• Managing from the top down,we operate with full legitimacy.我们进行由上而下的管理有充分的合法性。

18 diplomacy   

n.外交；外交手腕，交际手腕

参考例句：

• The talks have now gone into a stage of quiet diplomacy.会谈现在已经进入了“温和外交”阶段。
• This was done through the skill in diplomacy. 这是通过外交手腕才做到的。

19 detention   

n.滞留，停留；拘留，扣留；(教育)留下

参考例句：

• He was kept in detention by the police.他被警察扣留了。
• He was in detention in connection with the bribery affair.他因与贿赂事件有牵连而被拘留了。

20 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。