NATO wants proof after Russia says it's pulling back troops from Ukraine's borders

NATO wants proof after Russia says it's pulling back troops from Ukraine's borders

Transcript¹

Russia claims it is withdrawing some troops near Ukraine's borders, but President Biden warns an invasion is "distinctly possible." NATO defense² ministers are gathering³ to figure out next steps.

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

Russia claims that it has pulled some troops from the border with Ukraine, but NATO wants proof. Here's Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg speaking with reporters this morning.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

JENS STOLTENBERG: So far, we have not seen any de-escalation on the ground from the Russian side.

MARTIN: NATO defense ministers are meeting today and tomorrow. Last week, U.S. officials said a Russian attack on Ukraine was imminent⁴, even specifying⁵ from intelligence reports that it could come today. That has not happened.

Joining us now from Brussels, reporter Teri Schultz, and NPR's Frank Langfitt is with us from Ukraine's capital, Kyiv. Welcome to both of you.

TERI SCHULTZ, BYLINE⁶: Hi.

FRANK LANGFITT, BYLINE: Good morning, Rachel.

MARTIN: Frank, I want to start with you. What are you hearing from people in Kyiv right now?

LANGFITT: What's really interesting - I sort of expected more relief on the streets this morning. But there was sort of a surreal calm. And I think that when you talk to people here, as I'm sure that you did when you were reporting here, they've been living with the threat from Russia since 2014. That was when Russia seized Crimea. And frankly⁷, I think a lot of people here just - they're exhausted⁸. And so what's interesting is in the days leading up to a possible attack, you didn't see panic in the streets. You didn't see people rushing, frankly, to leave town. And one reason is that despite this massive buildup we've all been following, most people here didn't really think and still don't think that Russia will launch a mass invasion. They think that for Russia it would be too costly⁹ and certainly very costly here for Ukrainians in terms of lives.

And I ran into a woman who was coming off the subway today. She works for a TV company. Her name is Halyna Kobylko. And here's what she had to say.

HALYNA KOBYLKO: (Through interpreter) I thought there was a 1% chance that it might happen. But I also remember the case when Russia invaded Georgia. I sleep well. I didn't withdraw any money from the bank. I think this is all just geopolitical manipulation.

MARTIN: I guess that would be, you know, a natural response when you've been at war this long and it feels like one long cycle.

Teri, let's talk about this NATO defense ministers meeting. What is expected to come from this?

SCHULTZ: Well, Rachel, February 16 was already the date for this regular NATO defense ministers meeting, but obviously it got a lot more significant in the weeks and especially the latest days leading up to this meeting.

MARTIN: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: And there are plenty of things allies need to talk about. But it's fair to say that everything will be dominated by trying to read these latest signals from the Kremlin. And NATO's secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, says there is reason for cautious optimism now. But he also says NATO continues to prepare for the worst. And we have to remember that we're not just talking about Ukraine. Russia's also sent some 30,000 troops into Belarus. And that's a level NATO says is unseen since the end of the Cold War. Belarus directly borders Latvia, Lithuania and Poland, which are among those allies asking for some - more support, including at this meeting. So I think we're going to see some tangible¹⁰ reinforcements being discussed. For example, we expect in the coming weeks or months that a new NATO battalion¹¹ will be sent to Romania, and that will be led by the French. And I think other countries may well announce new ways that they also will help back up the eastern flank under these circumstances.

MARTIN: Frank, the Russian government insists that it has sent some troops home. President Biden says there are still 150,000 Russian forces massed near the Ukrainian border. Ukraine's president says he hasn't seen proof of a pullback. So, I mean, are people in Kyiv still in this holding pattern? Do they buy into...

LANGFITT: Yeah.

MARTIN: ...The significance of any of this?

LANGFITT: No, I don't think so at all. I mean, I think that they will believe it when they see large numbers of troops heading back to the barracks. Very few people in Ukraine trust Vladimir Putin. In a poll last year, about 80% of people had a negative opinion of him. And also, there's pressure from Russia. It's sort of part of the fabric¹² of the country. Russia controls the Crimean Peninsula to the south. The Russian-backed separatists - they continue to wage war in the east. And so even if troops pull back, you know, Russian soldiers or Russian proxies¹³ - they still control an area of this country that's larger than Switzerland.

MARTIN: Right. And, Teri, NATO too is saying that they haven't seen proof yet that there's been any significant action by Russia to de-escalate the situation.

SCHULTZ: Exactly - just like in Ukraine. You know, they're hoping that this means diplomacy¹⁴ is not completely dead. But that's not enough to reassure¹⁵ anyone at this point. NATO says it has seen no substantive¹⁶ change in Moscow's capacity to launch an attack.

I spoke¹⁷ with the U.S. Ambassador to NATO, Julie Smith, shortly after the Russian Defense Ministry¹⁸ made this announcement.

JULIE SMITH: We've had other instances where they've made similar claims, and, in fact, the facts on the ground have proven otherwise. Certainly, we wouldn't want to see a situation where they're taking troops from the south and moving them to the east. I mean, the facts of the matter are that we do not want a buildup of over 100,000 Russian troops on Ukraine's border. We would expect in a moment of de-escalation they would move considerably¹⁹ away from - far from the border.

SCHULTZ: And NATO underscores that just shifting troops around is not enough because you can move people so quickly. Until you pull back the heavy weapons that are in place and dismantle²⁰ all this combat support infrastructure²¹ that's been built up over the last months, the conclusion for defense planners has to remain that a Russian attack is possible at any moment.

MARTIN: Frank, there doesn't have to be a ground war to destabilize Ukraine, right? I mean, just the threat...

LANGFITT: No.

MARTIN: ...Has affected²² the economy. And even yesterday - I mean, there were some cyberattacks, no?

LANGFITT: Yeah, there were. I mean, there were two attacks on apps from state-run banks. They were restored. Hackers²³ also took down the Ministry of Defense, armed services websites. Authorities, of course, haven't identified who was behind those attacks. You know, it's often very hard to tell. But it was a reminder²⁴ for Ukrainians of the kind of threats that they faced. Many analysts²⁵ here say that they think Vladimir Putin's ultimate strategy is to try to use cyber, disinformation, economic pressure to wear down the Ukrainians, divide the country and ultimately destabilize the government.

MARTIN: So, Teri, the big question really is, is the U.S. and NATO - are they prepared to make a concession²⁶ to Vladimir Putin to end this crisis, right? - because Putin has said this is about Russia's own security.

SCHULTZ: That's right. One thing Ukraine can count on is that NATO will never give in to that Russian demand that it can close off membership, that Ukraine could never become a member. But it's also not close to becoming a member. And so individual governments, like the U.S., the U.K. and Canada, have sent some lethal²⁷ weapons on their own. But other than that, they will also provide some cyber resilience training. But otherwise, I think that we're going to see the Ukrainian defense minister join the NATO meeting tomorrow and ask for more support.

MARTIN: Teri Schultz reporting from Brussels and NPR's Frank Langfitt in Kyiv. Thanks to you both. We appreciate it.

LANGFITT: Great to talk, Rachel.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

3 gathering   

n.集会，聚会，聚集

参考例句：

• He called on Mr. White to speak at the gathering.他请怀特先生在集会上讲话。
• He is on the wing gathering material for his novels.他正忙于为他的小说收集资料。

4 imminent   

adj.即将发生的，临近的，逼近的

参考例句：

• The black clounds show that a storm is imminent.乌云预示暴风雨即将来临。
• The country is in imminent danger.国难当头。

5 specifying   

v.指定( specify的现在分词 )；详述；提出…的条件；使具有特性

参考例句：

• When we describe what the action will affect, we are specifying the noun of the sentence. 当描述动作会影响到什么时，我们指定组成句子的名词。 来自About Face 3交互设计精髓
• Procurement section only lists opportunistic infection drugs without specifying which drugs. 采购部分只说明有治疗机会性感染的药物，但并没有说明是什么药物。 来自互联网

6 byline   

n.署名；v.署名

参考例句：

• His byline was absent as well.他的署名也不见了。
• We wish to thank the author of this article which carries no byline.我们要感谢这篇文章的那位没有署名的作者。

7 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

8 exhausted   

adj.极其疲惫的，精疲力尽的

参考例句：

• It was a long haul home and we arrived exhausted.搬运回家的这段路程特别长，到家时我们已筋疲力尽。
• Jenny was exhausted by the hustle of city life.珍妮被城市生活的忙乱弄得筋疲力尽。

9 costly   

adj.昂贵的，价值高的，豪华的

参考例句：

• It must be very costly to keep up a house like this.维修这么一幢房子一定很昂贵。
• This dictionary is very useful,only it is a bit costly.这本词典很有用，左不过贵了些。

10 tangible   

adj.有形的，可触摸的，确凿的，实际的

参考例句：

• The policy has not yet brought any tangible benefits.这项政策还没有带来任何实质性的好处。
• There is no tangible proof.没有确凿的证据。

11 battalion   

n.营；部队；大队(的人)

参考例句：

• The town was garrisoned by a battalion.该镇由一营士兵驻守。
• At the end of the drill parade,the battalion fell out.操练之后，队伍解散了。

12 fabric   

n.织物，织品，布；构造，结构，组织

参考例句：

• The fabric will spot easily.这种织品很容易玷污。
• I don't like the pattern on the fabric.我不喜欢那块布料上的图案。

13 proxies   

n.代表权( proxy的名词复数 )；（测算用的）代替物；（对代理人的）委托书；（英国国教教区献给主教等的）巡游费

参考例句：

• SOCKS and proxies are unavailable. Try connecting to XX again? socks和代理不可用。尝试重新连接到XX吗？ 来自互联网
• All proxies are still down. Continue with direct connections? 所有的代理仍然有故障。继续直接连接吗？ 来自互联网

14 diplomacy   

n.外交；外交手腕，交际手腕

参考例句：

• The talks have now gone into a stage of quiet diplomacy.会谈现在已经进入了“温和外交”阶段。
• This was done through the skill in diplomacy. 这是通过外交手腕才做到的。

15 reassure   

v.使放心，使消除疑虑

参考例句：

• This seemed to reassure him and he continued more confidently.这似乎使他放心一点，于是他更有信心地继续说了下去。
• The airline tried to reassure the customers that the planes were safe.航空公司尽力让乘客相信飞机是安全的。

16 substantive   

adj.表示实在的；本质的、实质性的；独立的；n.实词，实名词；独立存在的实体

参考例句：

• They plan to meet again in Rome very soon to begin substantive negotiations.他们计划不久在罗马再次会晤以开始实质性的谈判。
• A president needs substantive advice,but he also requires emotional succor. 一个总统需要实质性的建议，但也需要感情上的支持。

17 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

18 ministry   

n.(政府的)部；牧师

参考例句：

• They sent a deputation to the ministry to complain.他们派了一个代表团到部里投诉。
• We probed the Air Ministry statements.我们调查了空军部的记录。

19 considerably   

adv.极大地；相当大地；在很大程度上

参考例句：

• The economic situation has changed considerably.经济形势已发生了相当大的变化。
• The gap has narrowed considerably.分歧大大缩小了。

20 dismantle   

vt.拆开，拆卸；废除，取消

参考例句：

• He asked for immediate help from the United States to dismantle the warheads.他请求美国立即提供援助，拆除这批弹头。
• The mower firmly refused to mow,so I decided to dismantle it.修完后割草机还是纹丝不动，于是，我决定把它拆开。

21 infrastructure   

n.下部构造，下部组织，基础结构，基础设施

参考例句：

• We should step up the development of infrastructure for research.加强科学基础设施建设。
• We should strengthen cultural infrastructure and boost various types of popular culture.加强文化基础设施建设，发展各类群众文化。

22 affected   

adj.不自然的，假装的

参考例句：

• She showed an affected interest in our subject.她假装对我们的课题感到兴趣。
• His manners are affected.他的态度不自然。

23 hackers   

n.计算机迷( hacker的名词复数 )；私自存取或篡改电脑资料者，电脑“黑客”

参考例句：

• They think of viruses that infect an organization from the outside.They envision hackers breaking into their information vaults. 他们考虑来自外部的感染公司的病毒，他们设想黑客侵入到信息宝库中。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Arranging a meeting with the hackers took weeks againoff-again email exchanges. 通过几星期电子邮件往来安排见面，他们最终同意了。 来自互联网

24 reminder   

n.提醒物，纪念品；暗示，提示

参考例句：

• I have had another reminder from the library.我又收到图书馆的催还单。
• It always took a final reminder to get her to pay her share of the rent.总是得发给她一份最后催缴通知，她才付应该交的房租。

25 analysts   

分析家，化验员( analyst的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• City analysts forecast huge profits this year. 伦敦金融分析家预测今年的利润非常丰厚。
• I was impressed by the high calibre of the researchers and analysts. 研究人员和分析人员的高素质给我留下了深刻印象。

26 concession   

n.让步，妥协；特许(权)

参考例句：

• We can not make heavy concession to the matter.我们在这个问题上不能过于让步。
• That is a great concession.这是很大的让步。

27 lethal   

adj.致死的；毁灭性的

参考例句：

• A hammer can be a lethal weapon.铁锤可以是致命的武器。
• She took a lethal amount of poison and died.她服了致命剂量的毒药死了。