Russia continues a broader approach to its attack against Ukraine

Russia continues a broader approach to its attack against Ukraine

Transcript¹

NPR's Rachel Martin talks with Ben Rhodes, an ex-deputy national security adviser², about the Biden administration's efforts to penalize³ Moscow, and what the U.S. can do to counter Russian aggression⁴.

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

As Tim noted⁵, Ukrainians are trying to fight back. But Russia's military capabilities⁶ are just so much larger than those of Ukraine. Russia, of course, has been successful in this kind of effort before. In 2014, during the Obama administration, Russia annexed⁸ Crimea.

Joining us now is Ben Rhodes, former deputy national security adviser for President Obama. Thanks so much for being with us.

BEN RHODES: Hey, Rachel.

MARTIN: You dealt with the threat of Russian aggression for many years in the White House. And you watched Russia take Crimea in 2014. Was a broader Russian attack on Ukraine predictable?

RHODES: Yeah. It was predictable in a number of ways. I mean, I think the circumstances are dramatically different from 2014. I mean, Crimea is a geographically⁹ distinct peninsula with a majority ethnic¹⁰ Russian population. And Russia had, you know, basically only to move in some special forces and mobilize some populations in Crimea. There wasn't much fighting around Crimea back in 2014, Rachel, and there was overwhelming support among the Russian population at that time. When Russia moved into the Donbas, there was a much tougher fight for them in Luhansk and Donetsk, and there was kind of a stalemate that emerged as the U.S. and our allies were also imposing¹¹ sanctions on Russia at that time. There were concerns that they might try to move further into Ukraine. There were concerns that they might make a move on Kyiv, but that didn't materialize. There really limited their actions to the Donbas at that time.

MARTIN: I want to play a bit of tape for you. I interviewed a former member of Ukraine's parliament ahead of the Russian invasion when I was there reporting. Her name is Oksana Syroyid. She told me Putin was emboldened¹² after taking Crimea and the eastern provinces. Let's listen.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)

OKSANA SYROYID: The reason why - Russia and Putin - they feel so comfortable gathering¹³ troops around the border - because he was never punished.

MARTIN: For Crimea?

SYROYID: For anything - for Crimea, for Donbas, for Belarus, for Syria, for anything. And impugn¹⁴ evil always returns.

MARTIN: Impugn evil always returns. Why do you think Russia wasn't held accountable in a way that would have prevented something like we're seeing today?

RHODES: Well, you know, the thing is, the capacity to shape Vladimir Putin's decision-making, as we're learning once again - this is not - it's not necessarily in our control - because he was punished. There was a round of - several rounds - of pretty significant sanctions imposed. At that time, sanctions of that scale had never been imposed before. As we are learning now, even with the imposition of these even more severe sanctions, unless you're willing to be in a military confrontation¹⁵, your tools are economic. They're diplomatic. They're political. And he may not be deterred¹⁶ by those tools. And you know, we saw him invade Georgia in 2008. We've seen him obviously annex⁷ Crimea in 2014.

There's been a ramp¹⁷ of escalation¹⁸ on Putin's side. But I think what this scale of escalation from Putin presents to the entire international community is the question of, if you're not willing to go to war with him in these spaces - and we are in NATO of course - so that's the distinction that President Biden has drawn¹⁹ several times in his public comments - what can you do to affect him? And ultimately, you have to affect the sources of support underneath²⁰ him and around him...

MARTIN: So...

RHODES: ...Because his mind is not one that that, you know, we are currently affecting.

MARTIN: ...Do you think then that these escalating²¹ rounds of sanctions now from the U.S. and NATO and EU countries, rather, are going to make a difference here?

RHODES: Not in the short term - you know, like, we have to be honest about this. These sanctions will have a significant hit on the Russian economy over time. In the short term, they may have an impact on Russian markets, on Russian currency. But in terms of Putin's own calculus²², he's clearly priced in sanctions. He has enormous reserves that he's stashed²³ away for expressly this purpose. He himself is incredibly personally wealthy and will not be impacted by sanctions. And so sanctions have to be seen as part of a broader strategy to impose a really punishing cost on Putin's inner circle, on key sectors²⁴ of the Russian economy. And frankly²⁵, it may just be that in the long term what's going to have to change here is something inside of Russia itself in terms of its leadership, because the capacity to pull sanctions levers - that man who gave that speech that we all saw from Vladimir Putin - deeply ideological²⁶, deeply isolated²⁷, a decision-maker of one. And in that circumstance, you know, you can stack sanctions on top of each other. That did not appear to be a man - and what we're seeing unfold before us - does not appear to be a man who is deterred by sanctions.

MARTIN: So you're saying that long-term change in the relationship between the West and Russia is only going to come when Putin goes away? I mean, that's a long-term prospect²⁸, if at all. In the meantime, what happens to Ukraine?

RHODES: Well, I will say, you can contain his ambitions - and so fortifying²⁹ NATO's eastern flank, deployment³⁰ of additional forces to NATO, the - you know, potentially Finland and Sweden joining NATO. You know, there are ways of, you know, controlling how far he's willing to go here. I'm speaking specifically about Ukraine, where we're already in the middle of a war. And I think that means that, you know, obviously we're in a tragic³¹ circumstance, where you simultaneously³² want to be providing whatever support you can to the Ukrainian people diplomatically, politically, through assistance. They're going to be obviously internally displaced and refugee challenges that will have to be addressed. The Ukrainians - you know, we've been providing them with with weapons and arms, but nowhere near the scale that could give them parity³³ with Russia. So right now, you know, you want to just offer them every ounce of support we can. But if you're not willing to go to war, there's obviously a ceiling on the impact that support can have in the midst of a conflict like this.

MARTIN: So what I hear you saying is that it's almost an inevitability³⁴ that Russia is going to be able to depose³⁵ the democratically elected government of Ukraine. And then what, occupy it?

RHODES: Clearly, that's their objective. You know, it's - I would imagine that if they are going to, you know, try to decapitate the democratically elected government of Ukraine, this is not going to be a simple endeavor for them. And this - I think there's an important point here, Rachel. When you look at Crimea or you look at those provinces - those portions of Georgia that Putin has...

MARTIN: Just 30 seconds.

RHODES: ...Annexed, occupied, those are miniscule compared to what he's done in Ukraine. This is an enormous country relative to what he's done. So I think he's going to be facing a long-term potential insurgency³⁶ that is not going to be easy for him to manage. And I think this could have negative unintended consequences that reverberate³⁷ back on him as well.

MARTIN: Former deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes - we appreciate your time and context. Thank you.

RHODES: Thanks.

(SOUNDBITE OF SIGNAL HILL'S "A SECRET SOCIETY")

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 adviser   

n.劝告者，顾问

参考例句：

• They employed me as an adviser.他们聘请我当顾问。
• Our department has engaged a foreign teacher as phonetic adviser.我们系已经聘请了一位外籍老师作为语音顾问。

3 penalize   

vt.对…处以刑罚，宣告…有罪；处罚

参考例句：

• It would be unfair to penalize those without a job.失业人员待遇低下是不公平的。
• The association decided not to penalize you for the race.赛马协会决定对你不予处罚。

4 aggression   

n.进攻，侵略，侵犯，侵害

参考例句：

• So long as we are firmly united, we need fear no aggression.只要我们紧密地团结，就不必惧怕外来侵略。
• Her view is that aggression is part of human nature.她认为攻击性是人类本性的一部份。

5 noted   

adj.著名的，知名的

参考例句：

• The local hotel is noted for its good table.当地的那家酒店以餐食精美而著称。
• Jim is noted for arriving late for work.吉姆上班迟到出了名。

6 capabilities   

n.能力( capability的名词复数 )；可能；容量；[复数]潜在能力

参考例句：

• He was somewhat pompous and had a high opinion of his own capabilities. 他有点自大，自视甚高。 来自辞典例句
• Some programmers use tabs to break complex product capabilities into smaller chunks. 一些程序员认为，标签可以将复杂的功能分为每个窗格一组简单的功能。 来自About Face 3交互设计精髓

7 annex   

vt.兼并，吞并；n.附属建筑物

参考例句：

• It plans to annex an England company in order to enlarge the market.它计划兼并一家英国公司以扩大市场。
• The annex has been built on to the main building.主楼配建有附属的建筑物。

8 annexed   

[法] 附加的，附属的

参考例句：

• Germany annexed Austria in 1938. 1938年德国吞并了奥地利。
• The outlying villages were formally annexed by the town last year. 那些偏远的村庄于去年正式被并入该镇。

9 geographically   

adv.地理学上，在地理上，地理方面

参考例句：

• Geographically, the UK is on the periphery of Europe. 从地理位置上讲，英国处于欧洲边缘。 来自辞典例句
• All these events, however geographically remote, urgently affected Western financial centers. 所有这些事件，无论发生在地理上如何遥远的地方，都对西方金融中心产生紧迫的影响。 来自名作英译部分

10 ethnic   

adj.人种的，种族的，异教徒的

参考例句：

• This music would sound more ethnic if you played it in steel drums.如果你用钢鼓演奏，这首乐曲将更具民族特色。
• The plan is likely only to aggravate ethnic frictions.这一方案很有可能只会加剧种族冲突。

11 imposing   

adj.使人难忘的，壮丽的，堂皇的，雄伟的

参考例句：

• The fortress is an imposing building.这座城堡是一座宏伟的建筑。
• He has lost his imposing appearance.他已失去堂堂仪表。

12 emboldened   

v.鼓励，使有胆量( embolden的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• Emboldened by the wine, he went over to introduce himself to her. 他借酒壮胆，走上前去向她作自我介绍。
• His success emboldened him to expand his business. 他有了成就因而激发他进一步扩展业务。 来自《简明英汉词典》

13 gathering   

n.集会，聚会，聚集

参考例句：

• He called on Mr. White to speak at the gathering.他请怀特先生在集会上讲话。
• He is on the wing gathering material for his novels.他正忙于为他的小说收集资料。

14 impugn   

v.指责，对…表示怀疑

参考例句：

• Nobody can impugn his ability.没有人对他的能力表示怀疑。
• The Secretary's letter questions my veracity and impugns my motives.部长的来信怀疑我的诚实，质疑我的动机。

15 confrontation   

n.对抗，对峙，冲突

参考例句：

• We can't risk another confrontation with the union.我们不能冒再次同工会对抗的危险。
• After years of confrontation,they finally have achieved a modus vivendi.在对抗很长时间后，他们最后达成安宁生存的非正式协议。

16 deterred   

v.阻止，制止( deter的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• I told him I wasn't interested, but he wasn't deterred. 我已告诉他我不感兴趣，可他却不罢休。
• Jeremy was not deterred by this criticism. 杰里米没有因这一批评而却步。 来自辞典例句

17 ramp   

n.暴怒，斜坡，坡道；vi.作恐吓姿势，暴怒，加速；vt.加速

参考例句：

• That driver drove the car up the ramp.那司机将车开上了斜坡。
• The factory don't have that capacity to ramp up.这家工厂没有能力加速生产。

18 escalation   

n.扩大，增加

参考例句：

• The threat of nuclear escalation remains. 核升级的威胁仍旧存在。 来自辞典例句
• Escalation is thus an aspect of deterrence and of crisis management. 因此逐步升级是威慑和危机处理的一个方面。 来自辞典例句

19 drawn   

v.拖，拉，拔出；adj.憔悴的，紧张的

参考例句：

• All the characters in the story are drawn from life.故事中的所有人物都取材于生活。
• Her gaze was drawn irresistibly to the scene outside.她的目光禁不住被外面的风景所吸引。

20 underneath   

adj.在...下面，在...底下；adv.在下面

参考例句：

• Working underneath the car is always a messy job.在汽车底下工作是件脏活。
• She wore a coat with a dress underneath.她穿着一件大衣，里面套着一条连衣裙。

21 escalating   

v.（使）逐步升级( escalate的现在分词 )；（使）逐步扩大；（使）更高；（使）更大

参考例句：

• The cost of living is escalating. 生活费用在迅速上涨。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The cost of living is escalating in the country. 这个国家的生活费用在上涨。 来自辞典例句

22 calculus   

n.微积分；结石

参考例句：

• This is a problem where calculus won't help at all.对于这一题，微积分一点也用不上。
• After studying differential calculus you will be able to solve these mathematical problems.学了微积分之后，你们就能够解这些数学题了。

23 stashed   

v.贮藏( stash的过去式和过去分词 )；隐藏；藏匿；藏起

参考例句：

• She has a fortune stashed away in various bank accounts. 她有一大笔钱存在几个不同的银行账户下。
• She has a fortune stashed away in various bank accounts. 她在不同的银行账户上秘密储存了一大笔钱。 来自《简明英汉词典》

24 sectors   

n.部门( sector的名词复数 )；领域；防御地区；扇形

参考例句：

• Berlin was divided into four sectors after the war. 战后柏林分成了4 个区。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Industry and agriculture are the two important sectors of the national economy. 工业和农业是国民经济的两个重要部门。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》

25 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

26 ideological   

a.意识形态的

参考例句：

• He always tries to link his study with his ideological problems. 他总是把学习和自己的思想问题联系起来。
• He helped me enormously with advice on how to do ideological work. 他告诉我怎样做思想工作，对我有很大帮助。

27 isolated   

adj.与世隔绝的

参考例句：

• His bad behaviour was just an isolated incident. 他的不良行为只是个别事件。
• Patients with the disease should be isolated. 这种病的患者应予以隔离。

28 prospect   

n.前景，前途；景色，视野

参考例句：

• This state of things holds out a cheerful prospect.事态呈现出可喜的前景。
• The prospect became more evident.前景变得更加明朗了。

29 fortifying   

筑防御工事于( fortify的现在分词 )； 筑堡于； 增强； 强化（食品）

参考例句：

• Fortifying executive function and restraining impulsivity are possible with active interventions. 积极干预可能有助加强执行功能和抑制冲动性。
• Vingo stopped looking, tightening his face, fortifying himself against still another disappointment. 文戈不再张望，他绷紧脸，仿佛正在鼓足勇气准备迎接另一次失望似的。

30 deployment   

n. 部署,展开

参考例句：

• He has inquired out the deployment of the enemy troops. 他已查出敌军的兵力部署情况。
• Quality function deployment (QFD) is a widely used customer-driven quality, design and manufacturing management tool. 质量功能展开(quality function deployment,QFD)是一个广泛应用的顾客需求驱动的设计、制造和质量管理工具。

31 tragic   

adj.悲剧的，悲剧性的，悲惨的

参考例句：

• The effect of the pollution on the beaches is absolutely tragic.污染海滩后果可悲。
• Charles was a man doomed to tragic issues.查理是个注定不得善终的人。

32 simultaneously   

adv.同时发生地，同时进行地

参考例句：

• The radar beam can track a number of targets almost simultaneously.雷达波几乎可以同时追着多个目标。
• The Windows allow a computer user to execute multiple programs simultaneously.Windows允许计算机用户同时运行多个程序。

33 parity   

n.平价，等价，比价，对等

参考例句：

• The two currencies have now reached parity.这两种货币现已达到同等价值。
• Women have yet to achieve wage or occupational parity in many fields.女性在很多领域还没能争取到薪金、职位方面的平等。

34 inevitability   

n.必然性

参考例句：

• Evolutionism is normally associated with a belief in the inevitability of progress. 进化主义通常和一种相信进步不可避免的看法相联系。
• It is the tide of the times, an inevitability of history. 这是时代的潮流，历史的必然。

35 depose   

vt.免职；宣誓作证

参考例句：

• The witness is going to depose.证人即将宣誓做证。
• The emperor attempted to depose the Pope.皇帝企图废黜教皇。

36 insurgency   

n.起义；暴动；叛变

参考例句：

• And as in China, unrest and even insurgency are widespread. 而在中国，动乱甚至暴乱都普遍存在。 来自互联网
• Dr Zyphur is part an insurgency against this idea. 塞弗博士是这一观点逆流的一部分。 来自互联网

37 reverberate   

v.使回响，使反响

参考例句：

• The decision will reverberate and will jar the country.这项决定将引起反响并震撼这个国家。
• Echoes of cries of pain reverberate in my hear.痛苦呼喊的一遍遍的在我的心中回响。