As the price of gas goes up, can the U.S. turn to Venezuela for oil?

As the price of gas goes up, can the U.S. turn to Venezuela for oil?

Transcript¹

NPR's A Martinez speaks with author and journalist William Neuman about the tangled² relationship between the U.S. and Venezuela, and America's re-assessment based on the new global oil dynamic.

A MARTINEZ, HOST:

Russia is one of the world's largest oil producers. But its brutal³ war on Ukraine has pushed the U.S. to look elsewhere for that oil, that includes the home of the largest crude oil reserves in the world, Venezuela. But there are complications. The U.S. doesn't recognize the presidency⁴ of Nicolas Maduro. He's regarded as a corrupt⁵ dictator. He's also one of the strongest Latin American allies of Russian leader Vladimir Putin. And because of the Maduro regime, the U.S. has banned American oil companies from operating in Venezuela.

WILLIAM NEUMAN: Venezuela has been in the midst of, you know, a historic, epic⁶ economic collapse⁷ for the last eight years.

MARTINEZ: William Neuman is a former New York Times Andes region bureau chief. He's also the author of "Things Are Never So Bad That They Can't Get Worse: Inside The Collapse Of Venezuela."

NEUMAN: It's lost 80% of its economic production. It's had hyperinflation, the, you know, shortages of food, medicine, gasoline, the collapse of the infrastructure⁸.

MARTINEZ: And this leads to what the U.N. Refugee Agency describes as the second-largest external displacement⁹ crisis in the world, over 6 million Venezuelans fleeing.

NEUMAN: Right, second only to Syria, which has been in the middle of a civil war. And in Venezuela, all it took was just mismanaging the economy.

MARTINEZ: The Biden administration recently made diplomatic overtures¹⁰ toward the Maduro government. And I wanted to get Neuman's reaction to that.

So on the heels of the war in Ukraine and the ban on Russian oil, when the Biden administration appeared like they were opening up a line of communication to Maduro in Venezuela, what did you make of that?

NEUMAN: The thing is that Venezuela's oil industry has really been brought to its knees over the last several years. And so production is way down. And at this point, even though they're sitting on top of all that oil, they can't increase production that much. So there's no way that you could get enough oil out of Venezuela at this point to affect the world oil price, which is really what determines the price at the pump in the U.S. I think that Biden did that mostly because he is trying to signal to American voters, look; I'm trying to do everything possible to bring in as much oil as I can because I recognize that the price of gasoline keeps going up.

MARTINEZ: But if that continues to happen, though, William, if the price of oil keeps going up and up and up to a point where Biden would have to maybe make strange bedfellows with Venezuela, I mean, could he maybe leverage¹¹ the U.S. market in exchange for democratic reforms in Venezuela, or do something where it would help the people of Venezuela actually get something good out of this deal?

NEUMAN: Sure. Well, you know, the U.S. policy, even at the end of the Trump¹² administration, was to promote negotiation¹³ between the opposition¹⁴ in Venezuela and Maduro. And one of the things that they discussed when the Biden folks went to talk to Maduro was resuming negotiations¹⁵. And that's still being talked about in Venezuela. But in terms of - what everybody's hoping for is some kind of negotiation that would guarantee a more fair election. There's a presidential election coming up in 2024. And the country's politics are all pointed¹⁶ to that. The problem is, with the sanctions, once you put them in - it's very easy to put sanctions on. It's very difficult to remove them. So you have this oil sanction. And even though it hasn't given you the results that you wanted and it's actually made the crisis in Venezuela worse for ordinary people, its existence is now it's justification¹⁷. So once it's there, it's very hard to remove the thing. So there's incentive¹⁸ for Maduro to try and do something. There's incentive for the U.S. The question is, what sort of political arrangement can you get in Venezuela?

MARTINEZ: But if the U.S., William, were to somehow start doing business with Venezuela, allow American oil companies to operate more in Venezuela, would that legitimize the presidency of Nicolas Maduro?

NEUMAN: I don't think that it legitimizes Maduro. You know, I was talking the other day to Chuo Torrealba, who's an activist¹⁹ in Caracas. And he was the head of the coalition²⁰ of opposition political parties for several years. And he would - talking about the sanctions, he calls it the politics of pain. There's this very cynical²¹ logic²² behind the sanctions, which is that if we make things bad enough, if we squeeze the economy and squeeze people and increase their suffering, then the people will rise up and rebel against the government. Or the armed forces will stage a coup²³ to get rid of Maduro. But it doesn't work that way. People who are starving don't make revolutions. It hasn't worked that way in Venezuela. And Chuo, who I was talking with, he says, to make politics with people's pain is a mistake.

MARTINEZ: Would it be a failure of sorts if the United States satisfies its dependency on oil by opening the door to Venezuela in order to stick it to Russia?

NEUMAN: I think that we should reverse that. I mean, the question is certainly worth asking. But the opposite question is also worth asking, which is, is it a failure to maintain the sanctions because the sanctions have contributed to the suffering in Venezuela? And so by keeping the sanctions in place, you are essentially²⁴ saying, we would rather, you know, continue this level of suffering even though it hasn't produced the results we wanted. It's one thing to talk about inflation and economics and geopolitics and all that. But the important thing to keep in mind with Venezuela is that there's real people on the ground who are hurting from this. And in the book, one of the things that I try to do is really focus it on people's stories.

So you know - so there's a woman who lives in Petare, which is one of the biggest slum in Latin America. Her name is Hilda (ph). She has seven kids. Her youngest son, Gregorio (ph), who is 4, his teeth were turning black and falling out because he wasn't getting enough calcium²⁵. There's a woman named Marlan, who, during the massive blackouts, participated in the looting because she had no food at home. And then she said, you know, how did I fall this low that I went and had to go and steal food? And how did my country get to this point? So it's people like that and their stories that really bring this kind of thing home.

MARTINEZ: That's William Neuman. His new book is called "Things Are Never So Bad That They Can't Get Worse: Inside The Collapse Of Venezuela." William, thanks.

NEUMAN: Thanks very much.

(SOUNDBITE OF ANKO'S "RAIN")

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 tangled   

adj. 纠缠的，紊乱的 动词tangle的过去式和过去分词

参考例句：

• Your hair's so tangled that I can't comb it. 你的头发太乱了，我梳不动。
• A movement caught his eye in the tangled undergrowth. 乱灌木丛里的晃动引起了他的注意。

3 brutal   

adj.残忍的，野蛮的，不讲理的

参考例句：

• She has to face the brutal reality.她不得不去面对冷酷的现实。
• They're brutal people behind their civilised veneer.他们表面上温文有礼，骨子里却是野蛮残忍。

4 presidency   

n.总统(校长，总经理)的职位(任期)

参考例句：

• Roosevelt was elected four times to the presidency of the United States.罗斯福连续当选四届美国总统。
• Two candidates are emerging as contestants for the presidency.两位候选人最终成为总统职位竞争者。

5 corrupt   

v.贿赂，收买；adj.腐败的，贪污的

参考例句：

• The newspaper alleged the mayor's corrupt practices.那家报纸断言市长有舞弊行为。
• This judge is corrupt.这个法官贪污。

6 epic   

n.史诗，叙事诗；adj.史诗般的，壮丽的

参考例句：

• I gave up my epic and wrote this little tale instead.我放弃了写叙事诗，而写了这个小故事。
• They held a banquet of epic proportions.他们举行了盛大的宴会。

7 collapse   

vi.累倒；昏倒；倒塌；塌陷

参考例句：

• The country's economy is on the verge of collapse.国家的经济已到了崩溃的边缘。
• The engineer made a complete diagnosis of the bridge's collapse.工程师对桥的倒塌做了一次彻底的调查分析。

8 infrastructure   

n.下部构造，下部组织，基础结构，基础设施

参考例句：

• We should step up the development of infrastructure for research.加强科学基础设施建设。
• We should strengthen cultural infrastructure and boost various types of popular culture.加强文化基础设施建设，发展各类群众文化。

9 displacement   

n.移置，取代，位移，排水量

参考例句：

• They said that time is the feeling of spatial displacement.他们说时间是空间位移的感觉。
• The displacement of all my energy into caring for the baby.我所有精力都放在了照顾宝宝上。

10 overtures   

n.主动的表示，提议；（向某人做出的）友好表示、姿态或提议( overture的名词复数 )；（歌剧、芭蕾舞、音乐剧等的）序曲，前奏曲

参考例句：

• Their government is making overtures for peace. 他们的政府正在提出和平建议。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• He had lately begun to make clumsy yet endearing overtures of friendship. 最近他开始主动表示友好，样子笨拙却又招人喜爱。 来自辞典例句

11 leverage   

n.力量，影响；杠杆作用，杠杆的力量

参考例句：

• We'll have to use leverage to move this huge rock.我们不得不借助杠杆之力来移动这块巨石。
• He failed in the project because he could gain no leverage. 因为他没有影响力，他的计划失败了。

12 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

13 negotiation   

n.谈判，协商

参考例句：

• They closed the deal in sugar after a week of negotiation.经过一星期的谈判，他们的食糖生意成交了。
• The negotiation dragged on until July.谈判一直拖到7月份。

14 opposition   

n.反对，敌对

参考例句：

• The party leader is facing opposition in his own backyard.该党领袖在自己的党內遇到了反对。
• The police tried to break down the prisoner's opposition.警察设法制住了那个囚犯的反抗。

15 negotiations   

协商( negotiation的名词复数 )； 谈判； 完成（难事）； 通过

参考例句：

• negotiations for a durable peace 为持久和平而进行的谈判
• Negotiations have failed to establish any middle ground. 谈判未能达成任何妥协。

16 pointed   

adj.尖的，直截了当的

参考例句：

• He gave me a very sharp pointed pencil.他给我一支削得非常尖的铅笔。
• She wished to show Mrs.John Dashwood by this pointed invitation to her brother.她想通过对达茨伍德夫人提出直截了当的邀请向她的哥哥表示出来。

17 justification   

n.正当的理由；辩解的理由

参考例句：

• There's no justification for dividing the company into smaller units. 没有理由把公司划分成小单位。
• In the young there is a justification for this feeling. 在年轻人中有这种感觉是有理由的。

18 incentive   

n.刺激；动力；鼓励；诱因；动机

参考例句：

• Money is still a major incentive in most occupations.在许多职业中，钱仍是主要的鼓励因素。
• He hasn't much incentive to work hard.他没有努力工作的动机。

19 activist   

n.活动分子，积极分子

参考例句：

• He's been a trade union activist for many years.多年来他一直是工会的积极分子。
• He is a social activist in our factory.他是我厂的社会活动积极分子。

20 coalition   

n.结合体，同盟，结合，联合

参考例句：

• The several parties formed a coalition.这几个政党组成了政治联盟。
• Coalition forces take great care to avoid civilian casualties.联盟军队竭尽全力避免造成平民伤亡。

21 cynical   

adj.(对人性或动机)怀疑的，不信世道向善的

参考例句：

• The enormous difficulty makes him cynical about the feasibility of the idea.由于困难很大，他对这个主意是否可行持怀疑态度。
• He was cynical that any good could come of democracy.他不相信民主会带来什么好处。

22 logic   

n.逻辑(学)；逻辑性

参考例句：

• What sort of logic is that?这是什么逻辑？
• I don't follow the logic of your argument.我不明白你的论点逻辑性何在。

23 coup   

n.政变；突然而成功的行动

参考例句：

• The monarch was ousted by a military coup.那君主被军事政变者废黜了。
• That government was overthrown in a military coup three years ago.那个政府在3年前的军事政变中被推翻。

24 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

25 calcium   

n.钙(化学符号Ca)

参考例句：

• We need calcium to make bones.我们需要钙来壮骨。
• Calcium is found most abundantly in milk.奶含钙最丰富。