Jan. 6 panel must invite Trump to testify, committee member Rep. Lofgren says

Jan. 6 panel must invite Trump¹ to testify, committee member Rep. Lofgren says

Transcript²

The House investigation³ of the 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol is in its final stages. NPR's A Martinez talks to Rep. Zoe Lofgren, a member of the Jan. 6 panel, about what's next.

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

The House investigation of the 2021 attack on the Capitol is in its final stages. The question is, what's next for the January 6 committee? Democratic Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren of California is a committee member. And she says, they are in a tricky⁴ position.

ZOE LOFGREN: We're a legislative⁵ committee. We're not a prosecutorial⁶ body.

FADEL: Over the last few days, reports emerged of a split inside the committee over whether to make a criminal referral for former President Donald Trump. But Lofgren told our co-host, A Martinez, they are not divided.

LOFGREN: Well, first, those reports are incorrect. The committee has never even had a discussion of this. And the press is spinning around, and commentators⁷, that somehow there's some division, we've never had a discussion.

A MARTINEZ, HOST:

Not even informally?

LOFGREN: Now, I did point out that there is no legal import. Essentially⁸, a criminal - so-called criminal referral is the committee sends a letter, right? And it doesn't have any legal impact. That doesn't mean we wouldn't do it and we haven't had a discussion of it. We've accomplished⁹ a great deal, but we're not quite done. And we expect and plan to have public hearings in the very near future to lay out what we've discovered not only about what happened on January 6 but the elements of the plot leading up to January 6.

MARTINEZ: Are you planning on having those discussions at some point very soon?

LOFGREN: Well, at some point, we very well may. But the real issue, I think, is to make sure that the American public. And that would include the Department of Justice, has the evidence (laughter) that we have compiled.

MARTINEZ: The public hearings, what's the timeline for that?

LOFGREN: Well, we haven't set a date yet, so I'm not going to leap ahead of the chairman's announcement. But we think quite soon - this spring for sure.

MARTINEZ: How likely do you think it is that the committee will ask former President Donald Trump to testify?

LOFGREN: That is something we haven't finalized¹⁰. So we're looking very seriously at that. Obviously, he's a central figure in this. I am mindful, however, that his track record of truthfulness¹¹ is a bit squishy. So to finish this without inviting¹² him in, I think, would be a mistake, personally. So again, no final decision has been made on that.

MARTINEZ: But it sounds like you would like him to testify.

LOFGREN: Well, I think we have to - I personally believe that we have to invite him in. It's important to note that members of his close circle have come in. Both his daughter and son-in-law came in for long interviews. But there are many others who were in the inner circle. Just take, for example, you make a phone call - Person A makes a phone call. Well, if you haven't talked to Person A, there are people in the office sitting around that person who overheard their end of the conversation. And it - and he made a call to Person B. There's people sitting around Person B who heard it. So you can piece together quite a bit of information, which we're attempting to do.

MARTINEZ: Would that be a reason to ask former Vice¹³ President Mike Pence to testify?

LOFGREN: Well, again, we have not made a decision on that. But I will say that we have received very substantial information about the vice president's activities from a whole variety of witnesses, as well as documentary evidence.

MARTINEZ: If the committee were to ask Donald Trump to testify and he declines, would there be something missing? Would there be something lacking in that final report without his testimony¹⁴?

LOFGREN: Well, you know, again, it's hard to know without knowing what he would say. I am aware that some of the press, I think, including NPR, did analysis of how often he lied.

MARTINEZ: But even if he were to lie, you'd want that on the record, though, wouldn't you?

LOFGREN: Well, as I say, we've not made a final decision. I personally believe we should invite him in. That's just my view. The committee has not yet made a decision on that.

MARTINEZ: Congresswoman, how does this committee's work compare with your previous work as an impeachment¹⁵ manager three times over, wondering what you've seen as - or felt some of the similarities and differences have been?

LOFGREN: This is the most wide-ranging, in-depth investigation I've ever been involved in.

MARTINEZ: More than the impeachment?

LOFGREN: Yes.

MARTINEZ: In what way? How has it gone?

LOFGREN: I mean, we have interviewed more than 800 people. We have more than 100,000 documents. It's an intense, wide, professional investigation. And it's yielded a very broad picture of the plot that led up to the January 6 events. We're not quite done. But we have uncovered quite a bit of information.

MARTINEZ: What do you hope the results of the investigation will do for the way Americans look back on what happened on January 6, 2021?

LOFGREN: Well, I hope that by presenting the facts that we've uncovered, people will understand it wasn't just some random¹⁶ day. It was a bad day for America, where, you know, there was violence. Hundreds of people were injured. People died. People broke into the Capitol. It didn't happen in isolation¹⁷. It was the product of quite an extensive plot to upend the Constitution and to prevent the peaceful transfer of power. So I hope that by the time we've presented our entire report, people will have a renewed passion for our Constitution, for our rule of law, and understand that the system of democratic transition of power is not just, you know, ours by right. We have to defend that with thoughtful rhetoric¹⁸ and adherence¹⁹ to the rule of law. I hope that that passion for America is renewed a little bit with this report.

MARTINEZ: That is California Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren. Congresswoman, thank you very much.

LOFGREN: You bet.

FADEL: She spoke²⁰ to our co-host, A Martinez.

(SOUNDBITE OF ANDREW GIALANELLA'S "WHAT IT MEANS")

1 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

2 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

3 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

4 tricky   

adj.狡猾的，奸诈的；(工作等)棘手的，微妙的

参考例句：

• I'm in a rather tricky position.Can you help me out?我的处境很棘手，你能帮我吗？
• He avoided this tricky question and talked in generalities.他回避了这个非常微妙的问题，只做了个笼统的表述。

5 legislative   

n.立法机构，立法权；adj.立法的，有立法权的

参考例句：

• Congress is the legislative branch of the U.S. government.国会是美国政府的立法部门。
• Today's hearing was just the first step in the legislative process.今天的听证会只是展开立法程序的第一步。

6 prosecutorial   

公诉人的，原告的； 起诉的

参考例句：

• If prosecutorial misconduct results in a mistrial, a later prosecution may be barred. 如果检察官的不轨行为导致审判无效，再行起诉可能会被除数禁止。 来自口语例句
• Prosecutorial supervision is required according to public power attribution of civil litigation. 民事诉讼的个性和检察监督是对立统一的关系，并不排斥检察监督。

7 commentators   

n.评论员( commentator的名词复数 )；时事评论员；注释者；实况广播员

参考例句：

• Sports commentators repeat the same phrases ad nauseam. 体育解说员翻来覆去说着同样的词语，真叫人腻烦。
• Television sports commentators repeat the same phrases ad nauseam. 电视体育解说员说来说去就是那么几句话，令人厌烦。 来自《简明英汉词典》

8 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

9 accomplished   

adj.有才艺的；有造诣的；达到了的

参考例句：

• Thanks to your help,we accomplished the task ahead of schedule.亏得你们帮忙,我们才提前完成了任务。
• Removal of excess heat is accomplished by means of a radiator.通过散热器完成多余热量的排出。

10 finalized   

vt.完成（finalize的过去式与过去分词形式）

参考例句：

• The draft of this article has been finalized [done]. 这篇文章已经定稿。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》
• The draft was revised several times before it was finalized. 稿子几经删改才定下来。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》

11 truthfulness   

n. 符合实际

参考例句：

• Among her many virtues are loyalty, courage, and truthfulness. 她有许多的美德，如忠诚、勇敢和诚实。
• I fired a hundred questions concerning the truthfulness of his statement. 我对他发言的真实性提出一连串质问。

12 inviting   

adj.诱人的，引人注目的

参考例句：

• An inviting smell of coffee wafted into the room.一股诱人的咖啡香味飘进了房间。
• The kitchen smelled warm and inviting and blessedly familiar.这间厨房的味道温暖诱人，使人感到亲切温馨。

13 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

14 testimony   

n.证词；见证，证明

参考例句：

• The testimony given by him is dubious.他所作的证据是可疑的。
• He was called in to bear testimony to what the police officer said.他被传入为警官所说的话作证。

15 impeachment   

n.弹劾；控告；怀疑

参考例句：

• Impeachment is considered a drastic measure in the United States.在美国，弹劾被视为一种非常激烈的措施。
• The verdict resulting from his impeachment destroyed his political career.他遭弹劾后得到的判决毁了他的政治生涯。

16 random   

adj.随机的；任意的；n.偶然的(或随便的)行动

参考例句：

• The list is arranged in a random order.名单排列不分先后。
• On random inspection the meat was found to be bad.经抽查，发现肉变质了。

17 isolation   

n.隔离，孤立，分解，分离

参考例句：

• The millionaire lived in complete isolation from the outside world.这位富翁过着与世隔绝的生活。
• He retired and lived in relative isolation.他退休后，生活比较孤寂。

18 rhetoric   

n.修辞学，浮夸之言语

参考例句：

• Do you know something about rhetoric?你懂点修辞学吗？
• Behind all the rhetoric,his relations with the army are dangerously poised.在冠冕堂皇的言辞背后，他和军队的关系岌岌可危。

19 adherence   

n.信奉，依附，坚持，固着

参考例句：

• He was well known for his adherence to the rules.他因遵循这些规定而出名。
• The teacher demanded adherence to the rules.老师要求学生们遵守纪律。

20 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。