The Pentagon can't confirm yet how the Russian ship Moskva was destroyed

The Pentagon can't confirm yet how the Russian ship Moskva was destroyed

Transcript¹

After Russia's lead warship² in the Black Sea sank, NPR's Leila Fadel speaks to retired³ Adm. James Foggo about the impact on Russian dominance in the Black Sea and the war in Ukraine.

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

The flagship of Russia's fleet is headed to the bottom of the Black Sea. The Kremlin says a fire onboard, the guided missile cruiser known as the Moskva, caused an explosion and that the ship sank in bad weather yesterday as it was being towed to shore. But weather reports in the northern Black Sea showed no storms. The Ukrainians have a different narrative⁴, claiming that two of their anti-ship cruise missiles hit the Moskva about 60 miles off the port city of Odesa. The Pentagon says it doesn't have enough information to confirm or refute either version, but it says something caused a significant explosion on the ship. To understand what this means for the Russian navy and for the war in Ukraine, we're joined by retired Admiral James Foggo. He was formerly⁵ commander of the U.S. Naval⁶ Forces for Europe and Africa and a NATO commander based in Italy. Admiral Foggo, thanks for being on the program.

JAMES FOGGO: Leila, it's great to be here with you this morning.

FADEL: So, Admiral, what we know for sure is that this flagship has sunk. But this is one ship. Can you explain the significance here? How does the loss of the Moskva impact Russia's dominance in the Black Sea?

FOGGO: Well, first and foremost, Leila, probably one of the biggest wake-up calls for everybody is that we've all thought this is just a land campaign so far. And I think the Russians thought that, too. There really is another element to this, and that is the maritime⁷ campaign. This is a terribly humiliating blow to the Russian navy. And it's rather astonishing that they could allow this to happen to themselves. So the forensics of what happened are still going on.

You saw the Pentagon spokesman Admiral John Kirby yesterday say, well, you know, this could have been a missile strike. The Russians, of course, claim it was a fire on board that led to explosion of their own ammunition⁸. But I can't underscore the significance. You know, it's also ironic⁹ because the flagship of any navy is usually the one that is the biggest and the best and the brightest. For us in Europe, it's the USS Mount Whitney, my favorite ship in the United States Navy. For the Ukrainians, it was the Hetman Sahaidachny, and sadly, President Zelenskyy ordered the scuttling¹⁰ of their flagship in the Mykolaiv shipyard just a few weeks ago. Even more ironically is that these Slava-class cruisers, of which the Moskva was one, was built in Mykolaiv shipyard. Just think about that. And it's named for the capital, the national capital, of Russia.

FADEL: Now, you talked about this being humiliating for Russia. And it surprised a lot of people how fiercely Ukrainian forces have been able to fight back this huge army. The loss of this ship, what does it say about Russia's military performance in its war in Ukraine?

FOGGO: Well, I think it's a carryover of what we've seen in the land campaign. And they're - this ship, the Moskva, carries the Kalibr-class cruise missile, which was used in combat operations by the Russians. It also carries, you know, a surface-to-surface missile that can gauge¹¹ other ships. But it also has defensive¹² systems that can defend the ship. What it tells me is that the Russians were complacent¹³. They should have been able to defend their ship. But I think they thought they could operate in the Black Sea or the Sea of Azov with impunity¹⁴.

And when you're in a wartime scenario¹⁵, you know, you need to be at battle stations. Obviously, they were distracted by something - if, in fact, this was a missile strike - and allowed their ship to be hit. And then even further as far as how they operate, damage control had to be poor on the ship. You know, the United States Navy has had its fair share of accidents or incidents. The USS Stark¹⁶ was hit by an Exocet missile in the Arabian Gulf¹⁷ back in the '80s. And we've had some collisions recently. We didn't lose any ships because we have sailors that know how to do damage control and chief petty officers, noncommissioned officers, who can take care of emergency or crisis on board the ships. This tells me that the Russians don't have the same level of proficiency¹⁸.

FADEL: Well, let's talk about the capacity of the Russian army. Do they still have the capacity to take over cities that are strategic coastal¹⁹ cities? I'm thinking of the southern port city of Mariupol, which Russian forces are besieging²⁰, have been trying to take for weeks now.

FOGGO: Right. And since they were not able to get in there with their naval infantry²¹ and actually take over the city, they've just decided²² to destroy the city.

FADEL: Yeah.

FOGGO: They've also been unable to take over Mykolaiv, that shipyard I was talking about. And they have not touched Odesa. Odesa will be a very tough fight if they go ashore²³. They might get their marines ashore. They've got these Ropucha-class amphibious assault ships. But they won't get very far because the fierceness of the Ukrainian fighters. And they've got to be worried now that if there is an anti-ship cruise missile like the Neptune²⁴, which they claimed hit the Moskva, that all of their ships are in jeopardy²⁵ when they come close to the shoreline.

FADEL: You also mentioned flagships are your best ship, right? But this is a 40-year-old ship that was sunk. What does that say about Russia's navy?

FOGGO: Well, it says that, you know, they've got the same kind of budget problems that everybody else's navy has. So they put their resources - the Russians put a lot of their resources into their submarine force. And I'm a submariner, and I know that for a fact. They poured rubles into the undersea domain²⁶ because they see that as an asymmetric²⁷ threat against the West. They have six Russian Kilo-class submarines running around the Black Sea right now. They're pretty new, and so they've recapitalized that force. But they have ignored the carrier fleet. The Kuznetsov is in drydock. And they haven't paid as much attention to their surface navy. And this is a wake-up call for them.

FADEL: Overnight, Russia says it struck a Ukrainian defense²⁸ plant that makes missiles, including anti-ship missiles. So Russia says missiles didn't take down its ship, then it hit a plant that makes anti-ship missiles. So does this lend credibility to Ukraine's version of what happened to the Moskva?

FOGGO: Well, it's quite a coincidence, isn't it? And I would think that - I've also seen that the retaliatory²⁹ strikes overnight have been brutal³⁰ on the cities around the coastline, Sea of Azov and all the other areas that the Russians are occupying. So, yes, it would tend to indicate that the Ukrainian story of a two-strike anti-ship cruise missile on Moskva is indeed accurate.

FADEL: That's retired Admiral James Foggo, former commander of the U.S. Naval Forces in Europe and Africa. Thank you very much.

FOGGO: You're welcome, Leila. Thank you.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 warship   

n.军舰，战舰

参考例句：

• He is serving on a warship in the Pacific.他在太平洋海域的一艘军舰上服役。
• The warship was making towards the pier.军舰正驶向码头。

3 retired   

adj.隐退的，退休的，退役的

参考例句：

• The old man retired to the country for rest.这位老人下乡休息去了。
• Many retired people take up gardening as a hobby.许多退休的人都以从事园艺为嗜好。

4 narrative   

n.叙述，故事；adj.叙事的，故事体的

参考例句：

• He was a writer of great narrative power.他是一位颇有记述能力的作家。
• Neither author was very strong on narrative.两个作者都不是很善于讲故事。

5 formerly   

adv.从前，以前

参考例句：

• We now enjoy these comforts of which formerly we had only heard.我们现在享受到了过去只是听说过的那些舒适条件。
• This boat was formerly used on the rivers of China.这船从前航行在中国内河里。

6 naval   

adj.海军的，军舰的，船的

参考例句：

• He took part in a great naval battle.他参加了一次大海战。
• The harbour is an important naval base.该港是一个重要的海军基地。

7 maritime   

adj.海的，海事的，航海的，近海的，沿海的

参考例句：

• Many maritime people are fishermen.许多居于海滨的人是渔夫。
• The temperature change in winter is less in maritime areas.冬季沿海的温差较小。

8 ammunition   

n.军火，弹药

参考例句：

• A few of the jeeps had run out of ammunition.几辆吉普车上的弹药已经用光了。
• They have expended all their ammunition.他们把弹药用光。

9 ironic   

adj.讽刺的，有讽刺意味的，出乎意料的

参考例句：

• That is a summary and ironic end.那是一个具有概括性和讽刺意味的结局。
• People used to call me Mr Popularity at high school,but they were being ironic.人们中学时常把我称作“万人迷先生”，但他们是在挖苦我。

10 scuttling   

n.船底穿孔，打开通海阀（沉船用）v.使船沉没( scuttle的现在分词 )；快跑，急走

参考例句：

• I could hear an animal scuttling about in the undergrowth. 我可以听到一只动物在矮树丛中跑来跑去。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• First of all, scuttling Yu Lung (this yuncheng Hejin) , flood discharge. 大禹首先凿开龙门（今运城河津市），分洪下泄。 来自互联网

11 gauge   

v.精确计量；估计；n.标准度量；计量器

参考例句：

• Can you gauge what her reaction is likely to be?你能揣测她的反应可能是什么吗？
• It's difficult to gauge one's character.要判断一个人的品格是很困难的。

12 defensive   

adj.防御的；防卫的；防守的

参考例句：

• Their questions about the money put her on the defensive.他们问到钱的问题，使她警觉起来。
• The Government hastily organized defensive measures against the raids.政府急忙布置了防卫措施抵御空袭。

13 complacent   

adj.自满的；自鸣得意的

参考例句：

• We must not become complacent the moment we have some success.我们决不能一见成绩就自满起来。
• She was complacent about her achievements.她对自己的成绩沾沾自喜。

14 impunity   

n.(惩罚、损失、伤害等的)免除

参考例句：

• You will not escape with impunity.你不可能逃脱惩罚。
• The impunity what compulsory insurance sets does not include escapement.交强险规定的免责范围不包括逃逸。

15 scenario   

n.剧本，脚本；概要

参考例句：

• But the birth scenario is not completely accurate.然而分娩脚本并非完全准确的。
• This is a totally different scenario.这是完全不同的剧本。

16 stark   

adj.荒凉的；严酷的；完全的；adv.完全地

参考例句：

• The young man is faced with a stark choice.这位年轻人面临严峻的抉择。
• He gave a stark denial to the rumor.他对谣言加以完全的否认。

17 gulf   

n.海湾；深渊，鸿沟；分歧，隔阂

参考例句：

• The gulf between the two leaders cannot be bridged.两位领导人之间的鸿沟难以跨越。
• There is a gulf between the two cities.这两座城市间有个海湾。

18 proficiency   

n.精通，熟练，精练

参考例句：

• He plied his trade and gained proficiency in it.他勤习手艺，技术渐渐达到了十分娴熟的地步。
• How do you think of your proficiency in written and spoken English?你认为你的书面英语和口语熟练程度如何？

19 coastal   

adj.海岸的，沿海的，沿岸的

参考例句：

• The ocean waves are slowly eating away the coastal rocks.大海的波浪慢慢地侵蚀着岸边的岩石。
• This country will fortify the coastal areas.该国将加强沿海地区的防御。

20 besieging   

包围，围困，围攻( besiege的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• They constituted a near-insuperable obstacle to the besieging infantry. 它们就会形成围城步兵几乎不可逾越的障碍。
• He concentrated the sun's rays on the Roman ships besieging the city and burned them. 他把集中的阳光照到攻城的罗马船上，把它们焚毁。

21 infantry   

n.[总称]步兵(部队)

参考例句：

• The infantry were equipped with flame throwers.步兵都装备有喷火器。
• We have less infantry than the enemy.我们的步兵比敌人少。

22 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

23 ashore   

adv.在(向)岸上，上岸

参考例句：

• The children got ashore before the tide came in.涨潮前，孩子们就上岸了。
• He laid hold of the rope and pulled the boat ashore.他抓住绳子拉船靠岸。

24 Neptune   

n.海王星

参考例句：

• Neptune is the furthest planet from the sun.海王星是离太阳最远的行星。
• Neptune turned out to be a dynamic,stormy world.海王星原来是个有生气、多风暴的世界。

25 jeopardy   

n.危险；危难

参考例句：

• His foolish behaviour may put his whole future in jeopardy.他愚蠢的行为可能毁了他一生的前程。
• It is precisely at this juncture that the boss finds himself in double jeopardy.恰恰在这个关键时刻，上司发现自己处于进退两难的境地。

26 domain   

n.(活动等)领域，范围；领地，势力范围

参考例句：

• This information should be in the public domain.这一消息应该为公众所知。
• This question comes into the domain of philosophy.这一问题属于哲学范畴。

27 asymmetric   

a.不对称的

参考例句：

• Most people's faces are asymmetric. 大多数人的脸不对称。
• We have made no reference to asymmetric carbon atoms. 我们未曾涉及不对称碳原子。

28 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

29 retaliatory   

adj.报复的

参考例句：

• The process can take years before the WTO approves retaliatory action. 在WTO通过此行动之前，这个程序恐怕要等上一阵子了。 来自互联网
• Retaliatory tariffs on China are tantamount to taxing ourselves as a punishment. 将惩罚性关税强加于中国相当于对我们自己实施课税惩罚。 来自互联网

30 brutal   

adj.残忍的，野蛮的，不讲理的

参考例句：

• She has to face the brutal reality.她不得不去面对冷酷的现实。
• They're brutal people behind their civilised veneer.他们表面上温文有礼，骨子里却是野蛮残忍。