美国国家公共电台 NPR--How do former President Trump's legal issues look to a prosecutor?

How do former President Trump¹'s legal issues look to a prosecutor²?

Transcript³

NPR's Steve Inskeep talks to former federal prosecutor Shan Wu about Justice Department legal arguments over the seizure⁴ of sensitive material from former President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

Now let's ask how Trump's troubles look to a prosecutor. Shan Wu is with us to talk about this, a former federal prosecutor. Welcome to the program.

SHAN WU: Thanks. Good morning.

INSKEEP: Trump's lawyers are not repeating in court his claim that he declassified⁵ the documents that were found at Mar-a-Lago because they could be disbarred or prosecuted⁶ for lying in court. So they're not telling that. But now they seem to be referring to Trump's public claim. In their filings, they say, well, there's a dispute about the classification status of these documents. Can they get away with that?

WU: They can get away with it legally. And as a matter of legal ethics⁷, I think they probably learned the lesson from watching what happened to Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell. What they're having a problem with is most likely managing their client's instructions. Quite obviously, he's kind of gone rogue⁸, as he usually does, trumpets⁹ whatever he wants to say, and they're trying to walk it back a little bit while still preserving potential legal defenses. So they are making a rather dismissive statement, putting the word classified in quotes in their latest response. And they definitely want to raise this notion that a sitting president can declassify¹¹ whatever he wants to, even though they aren't actually arguing that Trump declassified anything. So they're in a little bit of a pickle¹² there.

INSKEEP: And here's one way that that seems to be relevant. The government is now saying, OK, fine, Judge, you want to do this special master to look for privileged documents. The government will say most of these - many of these documents are obviously classified. They're marked classified. They belong to the government. There's no question of them being part of attorney-client privilege or belonging to Donald Trump. So set those aside from the special master. Could the judge conceivably accept that argument?

WU: The judge could, and I think DOJ has been fairly clever with that argument, while they obviously disagree, generally, that there's any need for a special master here, particularly with the idea of a special master looking at executive privilege, which is really unprecedented¹³, and there's no way to understand how they would have a special knowledge of that. But what they've done is they've offered the judge kind of a offramp for her position, which would be a bit of a compromise, would give Trump a little bit of a victory in terms of having a special master. But they've also asked the judge, leave these sensitive national defense¹⁰ documents alone and lift your stay - meaning, let us access them - because it's inseparable to do the investigation¹⁴ from the so-called intelligence review, meaning they have to have access to these documents to work on the investigation.

INSKEEP: Then there's the matter of the identity of the special master. We should remember that each side gave two possible candidates. Trump rejected both of the government choices without giving any reasons. The government says one of Trump's choices would be OK. Does the judge just pick that person?

WU: I think the judge should do that. And again, that's a good example of DOJ being shrewd in its maneuvering¹⁵ there. And that judge, you know, has good qualifications. They used to sit on the FISA court. So presumably that judge would be sensitive to protecting the national defense information.

INSKEEP: Can we talk through another matter here? We are less than 60 days before a big election, a time when the Justice Department is not generally supposed to make public moves about a politically sensitive investigation or prosecution¹⁶ if they can possibly avoid it. Now, Trump is not on the ballot¹⁷, although in a larger sense he is in election after election after election. What limitations, if any, would the Department of Justice face?

WU: Well, let me first state that I think that is a rule that is antiquated¹⁸ and should be done away with. However, what they're doing here is - were they to make a charging decision, they would probably avoid doing that close to an election because they feel that could be perceived as trying to interfere¹⁹, an attack on that candidate. Realistically, very little chance of that happening here. I mean, from what we're seeing at this stage of the investigation, while there is definitely now signs of life in the investigation, DOJ a little bit late to the game, but they're certainly active at this point. It's quite some time before they'd actually reach the point of a charging decision. So at least for this 60 days for the midterms, I don't think we're in much danger of that.

INSKEEP: Just got about 20 seconds. But why is this rule antiquated in your view?

WU: I think the notion in our times that - and I think Garland subscribes²⁰ to this - that you have to be so careful as a prosecutor not to appear partisan²¹ or political, the problem here is the threat to the democratic process has been so great, and I think the evidence of the crimes are so great that doing nothing is also being political.

INSKEEP: Shan Wu is a former federal prosecutor. Thanks so much.

WU: Thank you.

1 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

2 prosecutor   

n.起诉人；检察官，公诉人

参考例句：

• The defender argued down the prosecutor at the court.辩护人在法庭上驳倒了起诉人。
• The prosecutor would tear your testimony to pieces.检查官会把你的证言驳得体无完肤。

3 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

4 seizure   

n.没收；占有；抵押

参考例句：

• The seizure of contraband is made by customs.那些走私品是被海关没收的。
• The courts ordered the seizure of all her property.法院下令查封她所有的财产。

5 declassified   

adj.解密的v.对（机密文件等）销密( declassify的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• Thousands of classified documents have now been declassified. 数以千计的保密文件现在被解密了。
• The software used for Siemens S7-300 encryption logic block declassified. 此软件用于对西门子S7-300加密逻辑块解密。

6 prosecuted   

a.被起诉的

参考例句：

• The editors are being prosecuted for obscenity. 编辑因刊载污秽文字而被起诉。
• The company was prosecuted for breaching the Health and Safety Act. 这家公司被控违反《卫生安全条例》。

7 ethics   

n.伦理学；伦理观，道德标准

参考例句：

• The ethics of his profession don't permit him to do that.他的职业道德不允许他那样做。
• Personal ethics and professional ethics sometimes conflict.个人道德和职业道德有时会相互抵触。

8 rogue   

n.流氓；v.游手好闲

参考例句：

• The little rogue had his grandpa's glasses on.这淘气鬼带上了他祖父的眼镜。
• They defined him as a rogue.他们确定他为骗子。

9 trumpets   

喇叭( trumpet的名词复数 )； 小号； 喇叭形物； （尤指）绽开的水仙花

参考例句：

• A wreath was laid on the monument to a fanfare of trumpets. 在响亮的号角声中花圈被献在纪念碑前。
• A fanfare of trumpets heralded the arrival of the King. 嘹亮的小号声宣告了国王驾到。

10 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

11 declassify   

v.撤销保密

参考例句：

• These reports were only declassified last year.这些报告去年才被撤销了密级。
• Does the president have the power to declassify information?总统有权利解密相关信息吗？

12 pickle   

n.腌汁，泡菜；v.腌，泡

参考例句：

• Mother used to pickle onions.妈妈过去常腌制洋葱。
• Meat can be preserved in pickle.肉可以保存在卤水里。

13 unprecedented   

adj.无前例的，新奇的

参考例句：

• The air crash caused an unprecedented number of deaths.这次空难的死亡人数是空前的。
• A flood of this sort is really unprecedented.这样大的洪水真是十年九不遇。

14 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

15 maneuvering   

v.移动，用策略( maneuver的现在分词 )；操纵

参考例句：

• This Manstein did, with some brilliant maneuvering under the worse winter conditions. 曼施坦因在最恶劣的严冬条件下，出色地施展了灵活机动的战术，终于完成了任务。 来自辞典例句
• In short, large goals required farsighted policies, not tactical maneuvering. 一句话，大的目标需要有高瞻远瞩的政策，玩弄策略是不行的。 来自辞典例句

16 prosecution   

n.起诉，告发，检举，执行，经营

参考例句：

• The Smiths brought a prosecution against the organizers.史密斯家对组织者们提出起诉。
• He attempts to rebut the assertion made by the prosecution witness.他试图反驳原告方证人所作的断言。

17 ballot   

n.（不记名）投票，投票总数，投票权；vi.投票

参考例句：

• The members have demanded a ballot.会员们要求投票表决。
• The union said they will ballot members on whether to strike.工会称他们将要求会员投票表决是否罢工。

18 antiquated   

adj.陈旧的，过时的

参考例句：

• Many factories are so antiquated they are not worth saving.很多工厂过于陈旧落后，已不值得挽救。
• A train of antiquated coaches was waiting for us at the siding.一列陈旧的火车在侧线上等着我们。

19 interfere   

v.(in)干涉，干预；(with)妨碍，打扰

参考例句：

• If we interfere, it may do more harm than good.如果我们干预的话，可能弊多利少。
• When others interfere in the affair,it always makes troubles. 别人一卷入这一事件，棘手的事情就来了。

20 subscribes   

v.捐助( subscribe的第三人称单数 )；签署，题词；订阅；同意

参考例句：

• The library subscribes to 40 magazines. 这个图书馆订购四十种杂志。 来自《现代英汉综合大词典》
• He subscribes to a number of journals concerning his subject. 他订阅了许多与他的学科有关的杂志。 来自辞典例句

21 partisan   

adj.党派性的；游击队的；n.游击队员；党徒

参考例句：

• In their anger they forget all the partisan quarrels.愤怒之中，他们忘掉一切党派之争。
• The numerous newly created partisan detachments began working slowly towards that region.许多新建的游击队都开始慢慢地向那里移动。