美国国家公共电台 NPR--Should the U.S. worry that assistance to Ukraine could end up in the wrong hands?

Should the U.S. worry that assistance to Ukraine could end up in the wrong hands?

Transcript¹

NPR's Leila Fadel talks to Conor Savoy of the Center for Strategic and International Studies about Ukraine's efforts to root out corruption² to ensure allies their money is going to the right places.

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

There were anti-corruption raids in Kyiv ahead of a summit with European Union leaders there tomorrow. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy fired several government officials as part of the crackdown. And endemic corruption is one of the issues the EU said Ukraine needs to address before it can join the union, which Ukraine wants. The raids have also raised questions about how outside help, which Ukraine relies on for war efforts, might be impacted by the corruption that's plagued Ukraine for decades. To discuss, we've got Conor Savoy, a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. He focuses on the intersection³ of foreign policy and international development. And he joins us now. Good morning, Conor.

CONOR SAVOY: Good morning. Nice to be here.

FADEL: Thanks for being here. So let's start with these crackdowns. They came just before this EU summit in Kyiv. Were they intended to show European leaders and donors⁴ that Ukraine is actually doing something about corruption?

SAVOY: Yeah, I think it absolutely shows that Ukraine remains⁵ committed to this fight around anti-corruption. I think, you know, timing⁶ is probably somewhat coincidental, as this is, I think, part of a much broader investigation⁷ that's been ongoing⁸ for some time. But of course, the optics of it play quite well with EU folks arriving today. And the U.S. inspector⁹ generals from DOD, USAID and State were just there the other day as well. So I think it really underscores that this government, that Zelenskyy's government, remains committed to fighting corruption.

FADEL: Now, Ukraine has a troubled history with corruption. And there are questions. Ukraine has gotten billions of dollars of needed assistance, weapons and otherwise from the U.S. Should the U.S. government and other allies be worried that this kind of aid could end up in the wrong hands and pockets?

SAVOY: I think it's clear that there's - you know, Ukraine has had a long history with corruption since independence.

FADEL: Yeah.

SAVOY: However, I think that we should have a high level of confidence that the assistance we're providing - both weapons, humanitarian¹⁰, economic aid - is safe. There's been nothing to suggest, certainly since 2014, since the revolution of dignity, the Maidan revolution, that there's been any corruption associated with the significant volumes of aid that we've provided. We have a lot of safeguards in place. The Europeans have a lot of safeguards in place.

I think, you know, what we do want to underscore is, to the Ukrainian government, that we do need to have a full accounting¹¹ of where all this money is going. And that's, you know, the IGs - the inspector generals - were there, I think, really, to deliver that message. And I think the Ukrainian government understands that. They get it. This is their lifeline. And it's keeping them in the fight against Russia right now.

FADEL: Now, it sounds like what you're saying is this is a really good step in the right direction when it comes to fighting corruption in Ukraine. But I'm assuming this isn't solving it. Where do you think most significant reforms are needed?

SAVOY: Yeah. No. This is a - I mean, I think this is a positive. You're absolutely right. But there's still a lot that needs to be done. Look; I think you sort of have two systems in Ukraine right now. You have a legacy¹² system from the immediate¹³ post-war years that is dominated by oligarchs, vested interest, corruption. You have another sort of emergent system that's more Western-leaning, that's young, that's innovative¹⁴, that's, you know, tech-focused. Those people want to see action on corruption. The former, you know, they continue, though, to hold a lot of the levers of power.

And we need to see more action in the judicial¹⁵ sector¹⁶. We need to see more action sort of with transparency and accountability across the government. And again, they've taken a lot of good steps. But, you know, the judicial sector in particular remains very prone¹⁷ to corruption, to elite¹⁸ capture. Independent media still remains a challenge in the country. There are some great sources right now. But, you know, in the runup to the war, you still saw a lot of oligarchs execute influence through their - through media holdings and things like that. So there is still much to be done in Ukraine.

FADEL: Conor Savoy, senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Thank you so much for your time.

SAVOY: Thank you. It's been great.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 corruption   

n.腐败，堕落，贪污

参考例句：

• The people asked the government to hit out against corruption and theft.人民要求政府严惩贪污盗窃。
• The old man reviled against corruption.那老人痛斥了贪污舞弊。

3 intersection   

n.交集，十字路口，交叉点；[计算机] 交集

参考例句：

• There is a stop sign at an intersection.在交叉路口处有停车标志。
• Bridges are used to avoid the intersection of a railway and a highway.桥用来避免铁路和公路直接交叉。

4 donors   

n.捐赠者( donor的名词复数 )；献血者；捐血者；器官捐献者

参考例句：

• Please email us to be removed from our active list of blood donors. 假如你想把自己的名字从献血联系人名单中删去，请给我们发电子邮件。
• About half this amount comes from individual donors and bequests. 这笔钱大约有一半来自个人捐赠及遗赠。 来自《简明英汉词典》

5 remains   

n.剩余物，残留物；遗体，遗迹

参考例句：

• He ate the remains of food hungrily.他狼吞虎咽地吃剩余的食物。
• The remains of the meal were fed to the dog.残羹剩饭喂狗了。

6 timing   

n.时间安排，时间选择

参考例句：

• The timing of the meeting is not convenient.会议的时间安排不合适。
• The timing of our statement is very opportune.我们发表声明选择的时机很恰当。

7 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

8 ongoing   

adj.进行中的，前进的

参考例句：

• The problem is ongoing.这个问题尚未解决。
• The issues raised in the report relate directly to Age Concern's ongoing work in this area.报告中提出的问题与“关心老人”组织在这方面正在做的工作有直接的关系。

9 inspector   

n.检查员，监察员，视察员

参考例句：

• The inspector was interested in everything pertaining to the school.视察员对有关学校的一切都感兴趣。
• The inspector was shining a flashlight onto the tickets.查票员打着手电筒查看车票。

10 humanitarian   

n.人道主义者，博爱者，基督凡人论者

参考例句：

• She has many humanitarian interests and contributes a lot to them.她拥有很多慈善事业，并作了很大的贡献。
• The British government has now suspended humanitarian aid to the area.英国政府现已暂停对这一地区的人道主义援助。

11 accounting   

n.会计，会计学，借贷对照表

参考例句：

• A job fell vacant in the accounting department.财会部出现了一个空缺。
• There's an accounting error in this entry.这笔账目里有差错。

12 legacy   

n.遗产，遗赠；先人(或过去)留下的东西

参考例句：

• They are the most precious cultural legacy our forefathers left.它们是我们祖先留下来的最宝贵的文化遗产。
• He thinks the legacy is a gift from the Gods.他认为这笔遗产是天赐之物。

13 immediate   

adj.立即的；直接的，最接近的；紧靠的

参考例句：

• His immediate neighbours felt it their duty to call.他的近邻认为他们有责任去拜访。
• We declared ourselves for the immediate convocation of the meeting.我们主张立即召开这个会议。

14 innovative   

adj.革新的，新颖的，富有革新精神的

参考例句：

• Discover an innovative way of marketing.发现一个创新的营销方式。
• He was one of the most creative and innovative engineers of his generation.他是他那代人当中最富创造性与革新精神的工程师之一。

15 judicial   

adj.司法的，法庭的，审判的，明断的，公正的

参考例句：

• He is a man with a judicial mind.他是个公正的人。
• Tom takes judicial proceedings against his father.汤姆对他的父亲正式提出诉讼。

16 sector   

n.部门，部分；防御地段，防区；扇形

参考例句：

• The export sector will aid the economic recovery. 出口产业将促进经济复苏。
• The enemy have attacked the British sector.敌人已进攻英国防区。

17 prone   

adj.(to)易于…的，很可能…的；俯卧的

参考例句：

• Some people are prone to jump to hasty conclusions.有些人往往作出轻率的结论。
• He is prone to lose his temper when people disagree with him.人家一不同意他的意见,他就发脾气。

18 elite   

n.精英阶层；实力集团；adj.杰出的，卓越的

参考例句：

• The power elite inside the government is controlling foreign policy.政府内部的一群握有实权的精英控制着对外政策。
• We have a political elite in this country.我们国家有一群政治精英。