美国国家公共电台 NPR--Pakistan's Imran Khan talks of prosecuting opponents as they try to prosecute him

Pakistan's Imran Khan talks of prosecuting¹ opponents as they try to prosecute² him

Transcript³

NPR's Steve Inskeep interviews Imran Khan, the embattled former prime minister of Pakistan, who has been organizing protests since his ouster by Parliament in 2022.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

Imran Khan, the onetime prime minister of Pakistan, has had an eventful month. Police tried to arrest him in his home city of Lahore. Crowds of his supporters blocked that. Later, Khan started for court to face corruption⁴ charges, but as police battled supporters in the streets, a judge postponed⁵ the hearing. Yesterday, the onetime prime minister came on the line with us.

IMRAN KHAN: Yes, it's been exciting times here.

INSKEEP: If we looked out the window or over the wall right now, what would we see out there?

KHAN: You would see a lot of my supporters who are extremely worried that they are either going to abduct⁶ me or kill me.

INSKEEP: He jokingly referred to his location as Fortress⁷ Lahore, and he gave his view of the political crisis inside a U.S. ally that is also one of the most populous⁸ nations on Earth. He was prime minister there for 3 1/2 years before the parliament ousted⁹ him.

UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: (Non-English language spoken).

INSKEEP: He led protests against the replacement¹⁰ government, but authorities have now accused him of a variety of crimes like the one they tried to arrest him for this month. He's accused of improperly¹¹ accepting gifts while in office, although he denies this and many other charges.

KHAN: What is happening is that the government is petrified¹² of elections. They're scared that we're going to win the elections. Therefore, they are trying everything to get me out of the way, including assassination¹³, because I survived an assassination attempt - very lucky to be alive.

INSKEEP: The last time we talked with Imran Khan on MORNING EDITION, he was recovering from gunshot wounds. He's leading protests against the current government, which is also facing economic crisis and devastating¹⁴ floods. We got some perspective on all this from Diaa Hadid, who is our correspondent in the capital city, Islamabad.

DIAA HADID, BYLINE¹⁵: Most people I speak to when I'm walking around just doing regular interviews are cutting down on food to get by.

INSKEEP: About 5 million people are near starvation, half of them kids.

HADID: Pakistan is sort of - I'm trying to think of the word that - it's like it's gripped in a spiraling crisis it seems unable to get itself out of. And that is dire¹⁶. I mean, ultimately, it's the fifth most populous country in the world. It's a nuclear power. It's geographically¹⁷ in very strategic crossroads. And all the institutions that once could have played a part in smoothing out this crisis seem to be divided themselves and polarized because of the crisis.

INSKEEP: The last time Imran Khan oversaw¹⁸ this country, he talked of rebuilding the economy but finally lost his job. He lost the support of both the military, which holds great power, and the United States, which wields¹⁹ great influence. At one point, he accused a U.S. diplomat²⁰ of having him removed. He now says a Pakistani general poisoned U.S. opinion against him. Our colleague Diaa Hadid says Khan does have widespread public support.

HADID: It's a protest vote against what they see.

INSKEEP: And he told us he hopes to use his popularity against the coalition²¹ government that removed him.

KHAN: I don't know whether they'll eventually end up disqualifying me, but it doesn't matter because the party I lead now has a popularity wave unprecedented²² in our history. So whether I'm in jail or not, the party is going to sweep the elections anyway.

INSKEEP: Are you confident there will be an election at the appointed time?

KHAN: Now, that's my worry because according to the constitution, when we dissolved our two provincial²³ governments, the elections had to be held within 90 days.

INSKEEP: Pakistan's government has, in fact, been delaying provincial elections beyond that time. This, in turn has led to questions about whether the national government will allow fall elections that it's expected to lose.

I'd like to know what would happen should your party return to power, in one specific respect. Your opponents, when speaking with us, have sometimes justified²⁴ the crackdown on you, the crackdown on media, the crackdown on your supporters by saying that you too cracked down on the media and other critics when you were in power. If you return to power, would that cycle go on?

KHAN: Steve, my 3 1/2 years were the most liberal 3 1/2 years in our history. I mean, the - we never interfered²⁵ with the judiciary, which was always the case in the past. We never interfered with the media. The only time there were problems with the media were not because of us, because of the army, because of the army establishment.

Right now, I mean, in five months, not just me, all my senior leadership has cases against them. They're running from one court to the other. One of our best investigative journalists was hounded out of Pakistan and then murdered in Kenya. Three of our top investigative journalists are outside Pakistan now.

INSKEEP: Well, we will just note that our reporting has shown and also State Department reports and other things have shown that there were disappearances²⁶ and media critics silenced in past governments, including during the time when you were prime minister. You're telling me that was the army and not you, although that still leaves the question, if you're back in power, what will your attitude be toward the people you accuse of persecuting²⁷ you now?

KHAN: My firm belief - and this is because I've been all over the world as a professional international sportsman - the difference between rich countries and poor countries is not lack of resources. It's rule of law. Countries that have rule of law prosper²⁸, countries that don't have rule of law become banana republics. So our fight in Pakistan is to bring the powerful elite²⁹ under the law.

INSKEEP: Does that mean that there are people, perhaps in the elites³⁰, who need to be prosecuted³¹ in your point of view?

KHAN: Look, the rule of law means anyone who breaks the law, you actually - they are held accountable.

INSKEEP: Imran Khan, the former prime minister of Pakistan, speaking to us yesterday from Lahore. Our colleague Diaa Hadid was listening to that conversation from her base in Pakistan. And Diaa, what do you make of what you heard?

HADID: Well, Steve, I think by talking to you, Khan is actually speaking to Washington. I think he wants to project a sense of who he is. But what I find interesting is that he still claims the Biden administration was involved in his ouster, but he also says his people are meeting the U.S. ambassador here. So his critics say, which is it? They point to that and say he's erratic³².

And they also note he did crack down on media and did crack down on the judiciary during his time in power. But the thing is, Khan is popular for that very promise to crack down on corruption. Many Pakistanis here are skipping meals because they can't afford food. And there's a lot of anger against this government.

INSKEEP: And you have found that popularity, I know, as you've reported around the country. By speaking with us, is he also trying to protect himself?

HADID: I think so. I think the more Khan strengthens his international profile, it raises the cost of delegitimizing him politically. It raises the cost of arresting him or even harming him. And Khan says there's a plan to do that.

Now, I've just come back from a press conference with the defense³³ minister, Khawaja Asif, and he dismisses those claims. He says those allegations of seeking to harm Khan is just to whip up his supporters. He says Khan talking about cracking down on corruption is a bit rich when he skips court cases and his followers³⁴ clash with supporters. And Khawaja Asif says their elections will happen on time. And he's calling for talks with Khan to defuse this crisis.

INSKEEP: OK. NPR's Diaa Hadid, thanks for the insights. Really appreciate it.

HADID: Thank you, Steve.

1 prosecuting   

检举、告发某人( prosecute的现在分词 )； 对某人提起公诉； 继续从事（某事物）； 担任控方律师

参考例句：

• The witness was cross-examined by the prosecuting counsel. 证人接受控方律师的盘问。
• Every point made by the prosecuting attorney was telling. 检查官提出的每一点都是有力的。

2 prosecute   

vt.告发；进行；vi.告发，起诉，作检察官

参考例句：

• I am trying my best to prosecute my duties.我正在尽力履行我的职责。
• Is there enough evidence to prosecute?有没有起诉的足够证据？

3 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

4 corruption   

n.腐败，堕落，贪污

参考例句：

• The people asked the government to hit out against corruption and theft.人民要求政府严惩贪污盗窃。
• The old man reviled against corruption.那老人痛斥了贪污舞弊。

5 postponed   

vt.& vi.延期，缓办，（使）延迟vt.把…放在次要地位；[语]把…放在后面（或句尾）vi.（疟疾等）延缓发作（或复发）

参考例句：

• The trial was postponed indefinitely. 审讯无限期延迟。
• The game has already been postponed three times. 这场比赛已经三度延期了。

6 abduct   

vt.诱拐，拐带，绑架

参考例句：

• The police caught the man who tried to abduct the boy for ransom.警察抓住了那个企图拐走这男孩以便勒索赎金的家伙。
• The news that we see those use network abduct children sometimes filled with apprehension.我们有时看到那些利用网络诱拐儿童的新闻都心惊肉跳。

7 fortress   

n.堡垒，防御工事

参考例句：

• They made an attempt on a fortress.他们试图夺取这一要塞。
• The soldier scaled the wall of the fortress by turret.士兵通过塔车攀登上了要塞的城墙。

8 populous   

adj.人口稠密的，人口众多的

参考例句：

• London is the most populous area of Britain.伦敦是英国人口最稠密的地区。
• China is the most populous developing country in the world.中国是世界上人口最多的发展中国家。

9 ousted   

驱逐( oust的过去式和过去分词 )； 革职； 罢黜； 剥夺

参考例句：

• He was ousted as chairman. 他的主席职务被革除了。
• He may be ousted by a military takeover. 他可能在一场军事接管中被赶下台。

10 replacement   

n.取代，替换，交换；替代品，代用品

参考例句：

• We are hard put to find a replacement for our assistant.我们很难找到一个人来代替我们的助手。
• They put all the students through the replacement examination.他们让所有的学生参加分班考试。

11 improperly   

不正确地，不适当地

参考例句：

• Of course it was acting improperly. 这样做就是不对嘛！
• He is trying to improperly influence a witness. 他在试图误导证人。

12 petrified   

adj.惊呆的；目瞪口呆的v.使吓呆，使惊呆；变僵硬；使石化(petrify的过去式和过去分词)

参考例句：

• I'm petrified of snakes. 我特别怕蛇。
• The poor child was petrified with fear. 这可怜的孩子被吓呆了。 来自《简明英汉词典》

13 assassination   

n.暗杀；暗杀事件

参考例句：

• The assassination of the president brought matters to a head.总统遭暗杀使事态到了严重关头。
• Lincoln's assassination in 1865 shocked the whole nation.1865年，林肯遇刺事件震惊全美国。

14 devastating   

adj.毁灭性的，令人震惊的，强有力的

参考例句：

• It is the most devastating storm in 20 years.这是20年来破坏性最大的风暴。
• Affairs do have a devastating effect on marriages.婚外情确实会对婚姻造成毁灭性的影响。

15 byline   

n.署名；v.署名

参考例句：

• His byline was absent as well.他的署名也不见了。
• We wish to thank the author of this article which carries no byline.我们要感谢这篇文章的那位没有署名的作者。

16 dire   

adj.可怕的，悲惨的，阴惨的，极端的

参考例句：

• There were dire warnings about the dangers of watching too much TV.曾经有人就看电视太多的危害性提出严重警告。
• We were indeed in dire straits.But we pulled through.那时我们的困难真是大极了，但是我们渡过了困难。

17 geographically   

adv.地理学上，在地理上，地理方面

参考例句：

• Geographically, the UK is on the periphery of Europe. 从地理位置上讲，英国处于欧洲边缘。 来自辞典例句
• All these events, however geographically remote, urgently affected Western financial centers. 所有这些事件，无论发生在地理上如何遥远的地方，都对西方金融中心产生紧迫的影响。 来自名作英译部分

18 oversaw   

v.监督，监视( oversee的过去式 )

参考例句：

• He will go down as the president who oversaw two historic transitions. 他将作为见证了巴西两次历史性转变的总统，安然引退。 来自互联网
• Dixon oversaw the project as creative director of Design Research Studio. 狄克逊监督项目的创意总监设计研究工作室。 来自互联网

19 wields   

手持着使用（武器、工具等）( wield的第三人称单数 )； 具有； 运用（权力）； 施加（影响）

参考例句：

• She wields enormous power within the party. 她操纵着党内大权。
• He remains chairman, but wields little power at the company. 他还是主席，但在公司没有什么实权了。

20 diplomat   

n.外交官，外交家；能交际的人，圆滑的人

参考例句：

• The diplomat threw in a joke, and the tension was instantly relieved.那位外交官插进一个笑话，紧张的气氛顿时缓和下来。
• He served as a diplomat in Russia before the war.战前他在俄罗斯当外交官。

21 coalition   

n.结合体，同盟，结合，联合

参考例句：

• The several parties formed a coalition.这几个政党组成了政治联盟。
• Coalition forces take great care to avoid civilian casualties.联盟军队竭尽全力避免造成平民伤亡。

22 unprecedented   

adj.无前例的，新奇的

参考例句：

• The air crash caused an unprecedented number of deaths.这次空难的死亡人数是空前的。
• A flood of this sort is really unprecedented.这样大的洪水真是十年九不遇。

23 provincial   

adj.省的，地方的；n．外省人，乡下人

参考例句：

• City dwellers think country folk have provincial attitudes.城里人以为乡下人思想迂腐。
• Two leading cadres came down from the provincial capital yesterday.昨天从省里下来了两位领导干部。

24 justified   

a.正当的，有理的

参考例句：

• She felt fully justified in asking for her money back. 她认为有充分的理由要求退款。
• The prisoner has certainly justified his claims by his actions. 那个囚犯确实已用自己的行动表明他的要求是正当的。

25 interfered   

v.干预( interfere的过去式和过去分词 )；调停；妨碍；干涉

参考例句：

• Complete absorption in sports interfered with his studies. 专注于运动妨碍了他的学业。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• I am not going to be interfered with. 我不想别人干扰我的事情。 来自《简明英汉词典》

26 disappearances   

n.消失( disappearance的名词复数 )；丢失；失踪；失踪案

参考例句：

• Most disappearances are the result of the terrorist activity. 大多数的失踪案都是恐怖分子造成的。 来自辞典例句
• The espionage, the betrayals, the arrests, the tortures, the executions, the disappearances will never cease. 间谍活动、叛党卖国、逮捕拷打、处决灭迹，这种事情永远不会完。 来自英汉文学

27 persecuting   

（尤指宗教或政治信仰的）迫害(~sb. for sth.)( persecute的现在分词 )； 烦扰，困扰或骚扰某人

参考例句：

• This endurance made old Earnshaw furious, when he discovered his son persecuting the poor, fatherless child, as he called him. 当老恩萧发现他的儿子这样虐待他所谓的可怜的孤儿时，这种逆来顺受使老恩萧冒火了。
• He is possessed with the idea that someone is persecuting him. 他老是觉得有人要害他。

28 prosper   

v.成功，兴隆，昌盛；使成功，使昌隆，繁荣

参考例句：

• With her at the wheel,the company began to prosper.有了她当主管，公司开始兴旺起来。
• It is my earnest wish that this company will continue to prosper.我真诚希望这家公司会继续兴旺发达。

29 elite   

n.精英阶层；实力集团；adj.杰出的，卓越的

参考例句：

• The power elite inside the government is controlling foreign policy.政府内部的一群握有实权的精英控制着对外政策。
• We have a political elite in this country.我们国家有一群政治精英。

30 elites   

精华( elite的名词复数 )； 精锐； 上层集团； （统称）掌权人物

参考例句：

• The elites are by their nature a factor contributing to underdevelopment. 这些上层人物天生是助长欠发达的因素。
• Elites always detest gifted and nimble outsiders. 社会名流对天赋聪明、多才多艺的局外人一向嫌恶。

31 prosecuted   

a.被起诉的

参考例句：

• The editors are being prosecuted for obscenity. 编辑因刊载污秽文字而被起诉。
• The company was prosecuted for breaching the Health and Safety Act. 这家公司被控违反《卫生安全条例》。

32 erratic   

adj.古怪的，反复无常的，不稳定的

参考例句：

• The old man had always been cranky and erratic.那老头儿性情古怪,反复无常。
• The erratic fluctuation of market prices is in consequence of unstable economy.经济波动致使市场物价忽起忽落。

33 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

34 followers   

追随者( follower的名词复数 )； 用户； 契据的附面； 从动件

参考例句：

• the followers of Mahatma Gandhi 圣雄甘地的拥护者
• The reformer soon gathered a band of followers round him. 改革者很快就获得一群追随者支持他。