美国国家公共电台 NPR--Prosecutors say Trump talks about keeping classified documents on a recording

Prosecutors² say Trump³ talks about keeping classified documents on a recording⁴

Transcript⁵

NPR's Leila Fadel speaks with former federal prosecutor¹ Renato Mariotti about evidence former President Donald Trump admitted he kept classified documents after leaving office.

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

Federal prosecutors reportedly have a recording of president - former President Donald Trump talking about a classified document he had after he left office. The first account of this came from CNN. In the audio from 2021, Trump reportedly can be heard waving a paper. It's said to be a Pentagon memo⁶ about a potential attack on Iran. He's saying he'd like to share it, but the document is classified. That would contradict Trump's repeated claims that secret documents seized from his Florida home last year were all declassified⁷. Former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti joins me now to discuss the significance of this recording.

Good morning, Renato. Thanks for being on the program.

RENATO MARIOTTI: Good morning.

FADEL: So this recording seems to show Trump knew he had classified documents. Is this the piece of evidence the special counsel needs to bring a case?

MARIOTTI: It certainly helps quite a bit. The special counsel already had a pretty strong case, based on what we know publicly. I think this particular piece of evidence not only moves this case forward, but it undercuts some of the president's, you know, strongest defenses or the defenses that he did have, as you mentioned a moment ago.

FADEL: When you say it's the strongest piece of evidence, if you could talk about why.

MARIOTTI: Sure. So the biggest challenge for a prosecutor in a case like this is proving the defendant's state of mind. We don't have a telescope that can see inside President Trump's mind, and the jury would have to be convinced that he knew that he was, you know, retaining information that was supposed to be in the hands of the government. He, of course, has made statements to try to, you know, disclaim⁹ that and confuse the issues. And this recording, I think, indicates very clearly that he knew he had information that was important defense⁸ information. I think it's fair to say that an attack on Iran is sort of a document that should be kept secret. It shows that he had the information; he knew he wasn't supposed to share it. But frankly¹⁰, he was actually, you know, alluding¹¹ to doing so on that tape.

FADEL: So it shows intent there.

MARIOTTI: It does.

FADEL: How might Trump's team explain what is on this recording?

MARIOTTI: I think it's difficult, and that's part of the power of that evidence. It's very difficult to explain away his words, particularly without the former president taking the stand himself, which is always a risky¹² thing to do if you are charged in a criminal case. I think that they would basically have to try to say that he was, you know, joking and/or that he was, you know, pointing out that he didn't share the details of that information there, so he knew not to share it. But that's sort of beside the point.

FADEL: Now, this case is one of several. There are ongoing¹³ criminal and civil cases involving the former president, and that's pretty uncharted legal territory. What kind of trouble could Trump potentially face here?

MARIOTTI: Yeah. I think this is by far the most serious and problematic case for the former president. I think it's in a league of its own. And this case would result in a sentence of, you know, multiple years in prison. If we look at comparable sentences, for example, a case where a defense contractor¹⁴ brought home classified documents and retained them, you know, at his home, received a number of years in prison. Obviously, we can't predict exactly what would happen in this particular case given that it would be unprecedented¹⁵.

FADEL: Now - but this is a former president here, and other former presidents have had classified documents in their homes or their office, the current president as well. What's the difference with this case?

MARIOTTI: Well, the - in those other cases, you had stray documents that were inadvertently possessed¹⁶ by those presidents. And ultimately, those presidents reported it themselves. Here, the former president had the government trying very desperately¹⁷ to get that information from him, and he refused to provide it.

FADEL: Renato Mariotti is a formal - former federal prosecutor. Excuse me. Thank you so much for your time.

MARIOTTI: Thank you.

1 prosecutor   

n.起诉人；检察官，公诉人

参考例句：

• The defender argued down the prosecutor at the court.辩护人在法庭上驳倒了起诉人。
• The prosecutor would tear your testimony to pieces.检查官会把你的证言驳得体无完肤。

2 prosecutors   

检举人( prosecutor的名词复数 )； 告发人； 起诉人； 公诉人

参考例句：

• In some places,public prosecutors are elected rather than appointed. 在有些地方，检察官是经选举而非任命产生的。 来自口语例句
• You've been summoned to the Prosecutors' Office, 2 days later. 你在两天以后被宣到了检察官的办公室。

3 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

4 recording   

n.录音，记录

参考例句：

• How long will the recording of the song take?录下这首歌得花多少时间？
• I want to play you a recording of the rehearsal.我想给你放一下彩排的录像。

5 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

6 memo   

n.照会，备忘录；便笺；通知书；规章

参考例句：

• Do you want me to send the memo out?您要我把这份备忘录分发出去吗？
• Can you type a memo for me?您能帮我打一份备忘录吗？

7 declassified   

adj.解密的v.对（机密文件等）销密( declassify的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• Thousands of classified documents have now been declassified. 数以千计的保密文件现在被解密了。
• The software used for Siemens S7-300 encryption logic block declassified. 此软件用于对西门子S7-300加密逻辑块解密。

8 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

9 disclaim   

v.放弃权利，拒绝承认

参考例句：

• Scientists quickly disclaim the possibility.科学家们立刻否认了这种可能性。
• The manufacturers disclaim all responsibility for damage caused by misuse.使用不当而造成的损坏，生产厂家不负任何责任。

10 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

11 alluding   

提及，暗指( allude的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• He didn't mention your name but I was sure he was alluding to you. 他没提你的名字，但是我确信他是暗指你的。
• But in fact I was alluding to my physical deficiencies. 可我实在是为自己的容貌寒心。

12 risky   

adj.有风险的，冒险的

参考例句：

• It may be risky but we will chance it anyhow.这可能有危险，但我们无论如何要冒一冒险。
• He is well aware how risky this investment is.他心里对这项投资的风险十分清楚。

13 ongoing   

adj.进行中的，前进的

参考例句：

• The problem is ongoing.这个问题尚未解决。
• The issues raised in the report relate directly to Age Concern's ongoing work in this area.报告中提出的问题与“关心老人”组织在这方面正在做的工作有直接的关系。

14 contractor   

n.订约人，承包人，收缩肌

参考例句：

• The Tokyo contractor was asked to kick $ 6000 back as commission.那个东京的承包商被要求退还6000美元作为佣金。
• The style of house the contractor builds depends partly on the lay of the land.承包商所建房屋的式样，有几分要看地势而定。

15 unprecedented   

adj.无前例的，新奇的

参考例句：

• The air crash caused an unprecedented number of deaths.这次空难的死亡人数是空前的。
• A flood of this sort is really unprecedented.这样大的洪水真是十年九不遇。

16 possessed   

adj.疯狂的；拥有的，占有的

参考例句：

• He flew out of the room like a man possessed.他像着了魔似地猛然冲出房门。
• He behaved like someone possessed.他行为举止像是魔怔了。

17 desperately   

adv.极度渴望地，绝望地，孤注一掷地

参考例句：

• He was desperately seeking a way to see her again.他正拼命想办法再见她一面。
• He longed desperately to be back at home.他非常渴望回家。