美国国家公共电台 NPR Hacking Is 'A Bit Of A Superpower,' Says Creator Of 'Mr. Robot'

Hacking² Is 'A Bit Of A Superpower,' Says Creator Of 'Mr. Robot'

ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:

TV shows like to explore the anxieties of a particular time, so "Law And Order" and "CSI" gave us violent crime. "Homeland" and "24" gave us terrorism. Now "Mr. Robot" gives us two big things to worry about. The show focuses on a group of hackers⁴ who could destroy the economy and their nemesis⁵, an evil corporation that could take over the world.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "MR. ROBOT")

RAMI MALEK: (As Elliot Alderson) Sometimes I dream of saving the world, saving everyone from the invisible hand - the one that controls us every day without us knowing it.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #1: (As character) What if this all went away - the city, the money, all of it?

SHAPIRO: "Mr. Robot" has won Golden Globes, including best drama. It was recently nominated for six Emmys, and its second season is airing now on USA. The creator of "Mr. Robot" is Sam Esmail, who told me he had some firsthand experience with hacker³ culture before he ever got into television.

SAM ESMAIL: My poor attempt at hacking was limited to this really ill-advised decision to hack¹ my girlfriend's college campus and send out an e-mail on some stupid, you know, dumb, angsty rant⁶. And I easily got busted⁷ because I did it from the job at this computer lab that I was working at NYU. They traced it back to that IP address, and I got fired and put on academic probation⁸. And that was the end of my hacker days.

AUDIE CORNISH, HOST:

What was it about the hacker culture - the ethos, the kind of dissatisfaction - that stuck in your head for all these years that you would come back to it now?

ESMAIL: Well, the thing about angst is it's - you know, it's - obviously, there's a lot of negative connotation to it. But I also think there's another side to it, and that other side is being able to channel that anger for good. And honestly, the Arab Spring - you know, I went to - I'm Egyptian, so when I went to Egypt maybe a few months after the revolution sort of went down there - and I was talking to my cousins who were young and who were a part of it. And they used technology and - you know, to sort of make this happen - and used social media.

And they were really angry, and that's how that whole thing started. And I - you know, I just thought, oh, that - that's a good use of anger. It's actually necessary, in a way, to really kind of cause change in your society if you're dissatisfied or disgruntled about it. So there's a duality to it that - where, obviously, I think angst could go really awry⁹ and can get really self-indulgent. And then there's the flip¹⁰ side where it is actually sometimes necessary that fuels things like a revolution or a change in your society.

SHAPIRO: Your main character, Elliot, is possibly more skeptical¹¹ about big corporations than anyone else. And he is also a totally unreliable narrator who is kind of unstable¹². I wonder if you're telling us that if we're afraid of the power of corporations, as Elliot is, well, then we're probably paranoid and crazy like Elliot is.

ESMAIL: Well, I'm not - I'm not saying that. I mean, the thing about it is that Elliot is a very specific character that I have witnessed and I've read about among hacker culture. And I think he's a very extreme example - someone who is incredibly distrustful of the world, of government, of corporations to a sort of mentally ill extent.

I mean, think about the attitude of someone who thinks that there are all these resources dedicated¹³ to spying on them and their personal lives. There's a little bit of narcissism¹⁴ in there, and there's a lot of angst, and there's a lot of self-loathing. He's hard - sometimes hard to root for, but the one thing that I think gives him that human side is the Rami Malek side of it all.

SHAPIRO: He's the actor who plays Elliot. Yeah.

ESMAIL: Exactly - is the vulnerability - is - underneath¹⁵ all of that angst, all of that paranoia¹⁶ is loneliness, is pain. And that's really the root of all that.

SHAPIRO: His character has a sort of Robin¹⁷ Hood¹⁸ quality where, you know, he steals data from drug dealers¹⁹ or cheaters or child pornographers. And it's seductive, but he doesn't have this power because he's necessarily earned it. He just happens to have a certain set of technological²⁰ skills. And I'm not sure how to feel about that - that anyone with the ability to hack can carry out their own sort of vigilante justice.

ESMAIL: Right. And that again goes back to the narcissism. And, if you think about it, just the sort of psychology²¹ of a superhero is because I can, I should protect people, and I should put the bad guys away, and I should defend society. But it's - you're forming your own justice. You're - there's no judge and jury here. You are it. That, in and of itself, is, you know, a very complicated way of looking at morality.

SHAPIRO: Do you think of this as a kind of superhero show?

ESMAIL: You know, it's weird²² because I always think hacking is a little bit of a - of a superpower. I mean, that...

SHAPIRO: You can see through walls.

ESMAIL: Exactly. Well, you get - you can see through everyone's personal lives. And that - really, that's all - that's all sort of a construct of modern society. I mean, back in the day, all your personal information was not necessarily online, you know. So the fact that you can manipulate people because you can hack them and basically learn everything about their personal lives - I mean, that is an immense amount of power.

SHAPIRO: It's funny. As I go down this road of thinking of the hacker as the I'm superhero, I'm thinking, well, social outcast, check, alternate identity in the digital space, check.

ESMAIL: Dead father.

SHAPIRO: Dead father, check.

ESMAIL: Check.

SHAPIRO: Yeah.

ESMAIL: Evil nemesis - yeah, exactly.

SHAPIRO: So having written this show and now directing every episode of season 2, do you feel yourself being more paranoid and changing your passwords and stockpiling food and buying a cabin off the grid²³ in the Woods?

ESMAIL: No, I'm - you know, it's interesting. I think a lot of people confuse (laughter) me with the main character. I'm not in any way, shape or form like that. I'm very protective of my online life, and I try and take as many security measures, but I think everybody should. But, no, I am not like the off-the-grid kind of guy. I'm actually quite - hopefully quite normal.

SHAPIRO: I actually wasn't suggesting in any way that you are Elliot, but just that in exploring the possibilities...

ESMAIL: Oh.

SHAPIRO: ...Of what a motivated hacker can do.

ESMAIL: Yeah.

SHAPIRO: You think to yourself, I should be a little more paranoid than I am.

ESMAIL: I am definitely paranoid on my online life, but hopefully it has not gone into my system in terms of my just everyday life.

SHAPIRO: I mean, for example, season 2 features a great scene early on with a fully²⁴ wired house that basically rebels against its owner. And it made me think, you know, should I have more candles and distilled²⁵ water on hand than I do?

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "MR. ROBOT")

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #2: (As character) Nothing is working.

(SOUNDBITE OF ORCHESTRAL MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #2: (As character) I'm perplexed²⁶. Everything is inside the walls. That's how it was installed when I ordered the Smart House package.

(SOUNDBITE OF ALARM BEEPING)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #2: (As character) Now the alarm is going off, and it's freezing. It's below 40.

ESMAIL: You know what? I've got to tell you something. I love technology, and I love gadgets²⁷. I buy all the new gadgets when they first come out. You know, when we were shooting that sequence at that house, the house is so amazing and so beautiful. And even as we're shooting, you know, all these little, horrific scenes that went on, I was like, oh, I can't wait to get this. Oh, I've got to get this.

(LAUGHTER)

ESMAIL: Oh, my God. That's so awesome²⁸.

SHAPIRO: I had the exact opposite reaction.

(LAUGHTER)

ESMAIL: There you go. I should be more paranoid.

SHAPIRO: Sam Esmail, it's been great talking with you. Thanks a lot.

ESMAIL: Thank you so much, Ari. This was fun.

SHAPIRO: Sam Esmail is the creator of "Mr. Robot," which is currently in its second season on USA.

1 hack   

n.劈，砍，出租马车；v.劈，砍，干咳

参考例句：

• He made a hack at the log.他朝圆木上砍了一下。
• Early settlers had to hack out a clearing in the forest where they could grow crops.早期移民不得不在森林里劈出空地种庄稼。

2 hacking   

n.非法访问计算机系统和数据库的活动

参考例句：

• The patient with emphysema is hacking all day. 这个肺气肿病人整天不断地干咳。
• We undertook the task of hacking our way through the jungle. 我们负责在丛林中开路。

3 hacker   

n.能盗用或偷改电脑中信息的人，电脑黑客

参考例句：

• The computer hacker wrote that he was from Russia.这个计算机黑客自称他来自俄罗斯。
• This site was attacked by a hacker last week.上周这个网站被黑客攻击了。

4 hackers   

n.计算机迷( hacker的名词复数 )；私自存取或篡改电脑资料者，电脑“黑客”

参考例句：

• They think of viruses that infect an organization from the outside.They envision hackers breaking into their information vaults. 他们考虑来自外部的感染公司的病毒，他们设想黑客侵入到信息宝库中。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Arranging a meeting with the hackers took weeks againoff-again email exchanges. 通过几星期电子邮件往来安排见面，他们最终同意了。 来自互联网

5 nemesis   

n.给以报应者，复仇者，难以对付的敌手

参考例句：

• Uncritical trust is my nemesis.盲目的相信一切害了我自己。
• Inward suffering is the worst of Nemesis.内心的痛苦是最厉害的惩罚。

6 rant   

v.咆哮；怒吼；n.大话；粗野的话

参考例句：

• You can rant and rave at the fine,but you'll still have to pay it.你闹也好，骂也好，罚金还是得交。
• If we rant on the net,the world is our audience.如果我们在网络上大声嚷嚷，全世界都是我们的听众。

7 busted   

adj. 破产了的，失败了的，被降级的，被逮捕的，被抓到的 动词bust的过去式和过去分词

参考例句：

• You are so busted! 你被当场逮住了！
• It was money troubles that busted up their marriage. 是金钱纠纷使他们的婚姻破裂了。

8 probation   

n.缓刑(期)，(以观后效的)察看；试用(期)

参考例句：

• The judge did not jail the young man,but put him on probation for a year.法官没有把那个年轻人关进监狱，而且将他缓刑察看一年。
• His salary was raised by 800 yuan after his probation.试用期满以后，他的工资增加了800元。

9 awry   

adj.扭曲的，错的

参考例句：

• She was in a fury over a plan that had gone awry. 计划出了问题，她很愤怒。
• Something has gone awry in our plans.我们的计划出差错了。

10 flip   

vt.快速翻动；轻抛；轻拍；n.轻抛；adj.轻浮的

参考例句：

• I had a quick flip through the book and it looked very interesting.我很快翻阅了一下那本书，看来似乎很有趣。
• Let's flip a coin to see who pays the bill.咱们来抛硬币决定谁付钱。

11 skeptical   

adj.怀疑的，多疑的

参考例句：

• Others here are more skeptical about the chances for justice being done.这里的其他人更为怀疑正义能否得到伸张。
• Her look was skeptical and resigned.她的表情是将信将疑而又无可奈何。

12 unstable   

adj.不稳定的，易变的

参考例句：

• This bookcase is too unstable to hold so many books.这书橱很不结实，装不了这么多书。
• The patient's condition was unstable.那患者的病情不稳定。

13 dedicated   

adj.一心一意的；献身的；热诚的

参考例句：

• He dedicated his life to the cause of education.他献身于教育事业。
• His whole energies are dedicated to improve the design.他的全部精力都放在改进这项设计上了。

14 narcissism   

n.自我陶醉，自恋

参考例句：

• Those who suffer from narcissism become self-absorbed.自恋的人会变得自私。
• The collective narcissism of the Kerouac circle is ultimately boring.凯鲁亚克和他周围人物的集体自我陶醉欲最终使人厌烦不已。

15 underneath   

adj.在...下面，在...底下；adv.在下面

参考例句：

• Working underneath the car is always a messy job.在汽车底下工作是件脏活。
• She wore a coat with a dress underneath.她穿着一件大衣，里面套着一条连衣裙。

16 paranoia   

n.妄想狂，偏执狂；多疑症

参考例句：

• Her passion for cleanliness borders on paranoia.她的洁癖近乎偏执。
• The push for reform is also motivated by political paranoia.竞选的改革运动也受到政治偏执狂症的推动。

17 robin   

n.知更鸟，红襟鸟

参考例句：

• The robin is the messenger of spring.知更鸟是报春的使者。
• We knew spring was coming as we had seen a robin.我们看见了一只知更鸟，知道春天要到了。

18 hood   

n.头巾，兜帽，覆盖；v.罩上，以头巾覆盖

参考例句：

• She is wearing a red cloak with a hood.她穿着一件红色带兜帽的披风。
• The car hood was dented in.汽车的发动机罩已凹了进去。

19 dealers   

n.商人( dealer的名词复数 )；贩毒者；毒品贩子；发牌者

参考例句：

• There was fast bidding between private collectors and dealers. 私人收藏家和交易商急速竞相喊价。
• The police were corrupt and were operating in collusion with the drug dealers. 警察腐败，与那伙毒品贩子内外勾结。

20 technological   

adj.技术的；工艺的

参考例句：

• A successful company must keep up with the pace of technological change.一家成功的公司必须得跟上技术变革的步伐。
• Today,the pace of life is increasing with technological advancements.当今， 随着科技进步，生活节奏不断增快。

21 psychology   

n.心理，心理学，心理状态

参考例句：

• She has a background in child psychology.她受过儿童心理学的教育。
• He studied philosophy and psychology at Cambridge.他在剑桥大学学习哲学和心理学。

22 weird   

adj.古怪的，离奇的；怪诞的，神秘而可怕的

参考例句：

• From his weird behaviour,he seems a bit of an oddity.从他不寻常的行为看来，他好像有点怪。
• His weird clothes really gas me.他的怪衣裳简直笑死人。

23 grid   

n.高压输电线路网；地图坐标方格；格栅

参考例句：

• In this application,the carrier is used to encapsulate the grid.在这种情况下，要用载体把格栅密封起来。
• Modern gauges consist of metal foil in the form of a grid.现代应变仪则由网格形式的金属片组成。

24 fully   

adv.完全地，全部地，彻底地；充分地

参考例句：

• The doctor asked me to breathe in,then to breathe out fully.医生让我先吸气，然后全部呼出。
• They soon became fully integrated into the local community.他们很快就完全融入了当地人的圈子。

25 distilled   

adj.由蒸馏得来的v.蒸馏( distil的过去式和过去分词 )；从…提取精华

参考例句：

• The televised interview was distilled from 16 hours of film. 那次电视采访是从16个小时的影片中选出的精华。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Gasoline is distilled from crude oil. 汽油是从原油中提炼出来的。 来自《简明英汉词典》

26 perplexed   

adj.不知所措的

参考例句：

• The farmer felt the cow,went away,returned,sorely perplexed,always afraid of being cheated.那农民摸摸那头牛，走了又回来，犹豫不决，总怕上当受骗。
• The child was perplexed by the intricate plot of the story.这孩子被那头绪纷繁的故事弄得迷惑不解。

27 gadgets   

n.小机械，小器具（ gadget的名词复数 ）

参考例句：

• Certainly. The idea is not to have a house full of gadgets. 当然。设想是房屋不再充满小配件。 来自超越目标英语 第4册
• This meant more gadgets and more experiments. 这意味着要设计出更多的装置，做更多的实验。 来自英汉非文学 - 科学史

28 awesome   

adj.令人惊叹的，难得吓人的，很好的

参考例句：

• The church in Ireland has always exercised an awesome power.爱尔兰的教堂一直掌握着令人敬畏的权力。
• That new white convertible is totally awesome.那辆新的白色折篷汽车简直棒极了.