美国国家公共电台 NPR Guillermo Del Toro Says 'Shape Of Water' Is An Antidote For Today's Cynicism

 

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

Time now for a story that forces you to suspend reality - but it's worth it. The story is about a secret Cold War laboratory. A young woman works there. She's one of the janitors¹ who cleans up after the experiments. She can't talk. She's been mute since she was a child, which means it's hard for her to communicate what she sees in that lab - a green, scaly² sea creature. He is not good. He is not evil. And film director Guillermo del Toro likes it that way.

GUILLERMO DEL TORO: The creature, which is the beast in this "Beauty And The Beast" fable³, is not reformed or transformed into a charming prince. The creature has cannibalistic urges. He doesn't get domesticated⁴. He's still an animal.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE SHAPE OF WATER")

DOUG JONES: (As Amphibian⁵ Man, phonating).

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) Get them out.

JONES: (As Amphibian Man, phonating).

DEL TORO: Those are the areas of gray that distinguish but yet allow to still function as a fairy tale.

MARTIN: Del Toro's newest film is called "The Shape Of Water." And like so many of his other movies, it doesn't fit into one genre⁶. It's a love story and a musical, fantasy and thriller⁷. And at the center of it all is a being that is both hideous⁸ and perfect at the same time.

DEL TORO: The beautiful thing about this creature is sort of the Michelangelo's "David" of those creatures. It is absolutely gorgeous in every proportion, in every sculptural detail.

MARTIN: Yeah.

DEL TORO: The idea is that this is not an animal. It's revealed little by little in the movie that this creature may have divine origin. It may be a river god. And little by little, you get this unveiled in the film.

MARTIN: Besides the creature, there is amazing talent in this film - Octavia Spencer, Richard Jenkins, Michael Shannon. Sally Hawkins plays the lead character in this story.

DEL TORO: Yeah.

MARTIN: She is one of the two cleaning ladies in this facility. She has no lines in the movie because she's mute.

DEL TORO: Yeah.

MARTIN: And the basis of the love story, of this connection that she has with this merman - the two are outcasts. And that's clear that they feel a connection because of their place in society.

DEL TORO: Yeah.

MARTIN: But you could have made her an outcast in a variety of ways. Why deprive her of speech?

DEL TORO: There's a point, in fact, in the movie to show you that every character that does speak - and many of them speak a lot, you know - when they're around Elisa, basically they're running a monologue⁹.

MARTIN: Yeah.

DEL TORO: And what is beautiful for me is that every single character that has the power of speech has problems communicating. And the two characters that have not the power of speech - they are mute or wordless - they are actually communicating beautifully. The idea for me was to make it a reconnaissance. And love is like that. Love is - you know, words can fool you. Looks cannot - or touch. And the idea with this film is that their connection - as it gets revealed, you see that they have more in common than you would have anticipated.

MARTIN: It is so interesting. As you note, there are so many people talking at Elisa.

DEL TORO: Yes.

MARTIN: There are people who she's close to. She's very close to the other cleaning lady, played by Octavia Spencer. And her best friend is Richard Jenkins. They're close, but they are failing to connect in some way because...

DEL TORO: Yeah.

MARTIN: ...It is just this running of the mouth.

DEL TORO: Yeah, they talk a lot to her. But they don't talk a lot with her. The movie is about connecting with the "other," quote, unquote. You know, the idea of empathy, the idea of how we do need each other to survive - and that's why the original title in the screenplay when I wrote it was "A Fairy Tale For Troubled Times" because I think that this is a movie that is incredibly pertinent¹⁰ and almost like an antidote¹¹ to a lot of the cynicism and disconnect that we experience day to day in almost every medium.

MARTIN: Can you say more about that? Do you hear a hollowness in how we connect with each other or talk to each other - try to connect?

DEL TORO: Well, yes. The most intimate spaces get invaded by this idea that often there is them, and there's never - them is an illusion for me. There's only us. Right now we are in our terrible twos. You know, we are in a constant tantrum socially. And I find it very, very dangerous because it seems to be destroying and eroding¹² civil discourse¹³ that we had worked really hard to create over decades, if not centuries. And the movie tries to show a gentle - very poignant¹⁴, though - very poignant fable about empathy and love.

MARTIN: Your family is from Guadalajara, Mexico. You were raised as a Catholic...

DEL TORO: Yeah.

MARTIN: ...A pretty strict Catholic. I understand you are - you do no longer identify as a Catholic. But...

DEL TORO: No, no - I'm very lapsed¹⁵.

MARTIN: ...You are the product of that culture and that point of view.

DEL TORO: Yes.

MARTIN: Does it affect how you construct your heroes and villains¹⁶?

DEL TORO: Yes, of course it does. I mean, the very simple notion that is both a fairy tale and a very Catholic notion is the humble¹⁷ force or the force of humility¹⁸, you know, that gets revealed as a godlike figure towards the end. It's also used in fairy tale. In fairy tale, in fact, there is an entire strand¹⁹ of tales that would be encompassed²⁰ by the title "The Magical Fish" - and not exactly a secret that a fish is a Christian²¹ symbol.

MARTIN: Right.

DEL TORO: And the idea that he is there being - going through a via crucis, you know, by being tortured, being humiliated²² and then reveals himself as a life-giver, a life-restorer, a godlike figure - must come from there. But that said, what I do is syncretism. I take the lore²³ and cosmology of the Catholic dogma and beliefs. And I take what I know and learned through the years about an almost anthropological²⁴ study of fairy tales. I take what I love about cinema, and I take what I love of a genre. And I combine all of that.

MARTIN: There is also, in your work, flirtation²⁵ with the idea of an afterlife. What is it about that idea that captivates you?

DEL TORO: I believe that we all have access to that moment of clarity, but we don't have it in a supernatural way. I don't think there is life beyond death - I don't. But I do believe that we get this clarity in, you know, the last minute or our life. The titles we achieved, the honors we managed - they all vanish. And you are left alone with you and your deeds and the things you didn't do. And that moment of clarity gives you either peace or the most tremendous fear because you finally have no cover. And you finally realize exactly who you are.

MARTIN: Director Guillermo del Toro - his newest film is called "The Shape Of Water." Thank you so much for talking with us.

DEL TORO: My pleasure. Thank you.

(SOUNDBITE OF ALEXANDRE DESPLAT'S "THE SHAPE OF WATER")

1 janitors   

n.看门人( janitor的名词复数 )；看管房屋的人；锅炉工

参考例句：

• The janitors were always kicking us out. 守卫总是将～踢出去。 来自互联网
• My aim is to be one of the best janitors in the world. 我的目标是要成为全世界最好的守门人。 来自互联网

2 scaly   

adj.鱼鳞状的；干燥粗糙的

参考例句：

• Reptiles possess a scaly,dry skin.爬行类具有覆盖着鳞片的干燥皮肤。
• The iron pipe is scaly with rust.铁管子因为生锈一片片剥落了。

3 fable   

n.寓言；童话；神话

参考例句：

• The fable is given on the next page. 这篇寓言登在下一页上。
• He had some motive in telling this fable. 他讲这寓言故事是有用意的。

4 domesticated   

adj.喜欢家庭生活的；（指动物）被驯养了的v.驯化( domesticate的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• He is thoroughly domesticated and cooks a delicious chicken casserole. 他精于家务，烹制的砂锅炖小鸡非常可口。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The donkey is a domesticated form of the African wild ass. 驴是非洲野驴的一种已驯化的品种。 来自《简明英汉词典》

5 amphibian   

n.两栖动物；水陆两用飞机和车辆

参考例句：

• The frog is an amphibian,which means it can live on land and in water.青蛙属于两栖动物，也就是说它既能生活在陆地上也能生活在水里。
• Amphibian is an important specie in ecosystem and has profound meaning in the ecotoxicology evaluation.两栖类是生态系统中的重要物种，并且对环境毒理评价有着深远意义。

6 genre   

n.(文学、艺术等的)类型，体裁，风格

参考例句：

• My favorite music genre is blues.我最喜欢的音乐种类是布鲁斯音乐。
• Superficially,this Shakespeare's work seems to fit into the same genre.从表面上看， 莎士比亚的这个剧本似乎属于同一类型。

7 thriller   

n.惊险片，恐怖片

参考例句：

• He began by writing a thriller.That book sold a million copies.他是写惊险小说起家的。那本书卖了一百万册。
• I always take a thriller to read on the train.我乘火车时，总带一本惊险小说看。

8 hideous   

adj.丑陋的，可憎的，可怕的，恐怖的

参考例句：

• The whole experience had been like some hideous nightmare.整个经历就像一场可怕的噩梦。
• They're not like dogs,they're hideous brutes.它们不像狗，是丑陋的畜牲。

9 monologue   

n.长篇大论，（戏剧等中的）独白

参考例句：

• The comedian gave a long monologue of jokes.喜剧演员讲了一长段由笑话组成的独白。
• He went into a long monologue.他一个人滔滔不绝地讲话。

10 pertinent   

adj.恰当的；贴切的；中肯的；有关的；相干的

参考例句：

• The expert made some pertinent comments on the scheme.那专家对规划提出了一些中肯的意见。
• These should guide him to pertinent questions for further study.这些将有助于他进一步研究有关问题。

11 antidote   

n.解毒药，解毒剂

参考例句：

• There is no known antidote for this poison.这种毒药没有解药。
• Chinese physicians used it as an antidote for snake poison.中医师用它来解蛇毒。

12 eroding   

侵蚀，腐蚀( erode的现在分词 )； 逐渐毁坏，削弱，损害

参考例句：

• The coast is slowly eroding. 海岸正慢慢地被侵蚀。
• Another new development is eroding the age-old stereotype of the male warrior. 另一个新现象是，久已形成的男人皆武士的形象正逐渐消失。

13 discourse   

n.论文，演说；谈话；话语；vi.讲述，著述

参考例句：

• We'll discourse on the subject tonight.我们今晚要谈论这个问题。
• He fell into discourse with the customers who were drinking at the counter.他和站在柜台旁的酒客谈了起来。

14 poignant   

adj.令人痛苦的，辛酸的，惨痛的

参考例句：

• His lyrics are as acerbic and poignant as they ever have been.他的歌词一如既往的犀利辛辣。
• It is especially poignant that he died on the day before his wedding.他在婚礼前一天去世了，这尤其令人悲恸。

15 lapsed   

adj.流失的，堕落的v.退步( lapse的过去式和过去分词 )；陷入；倒退；丧失

参考例句：

• He had lapsed into unconsciousness. 他陷入了昏迷状态。
• He soon lapsed into his previous bad habits. 他很快陷入以前的恶习中去。 来自《简明英汉词典》

16 villains   

n.恶棍( villain的名词复数 )；罪犯；（小说、戏剧等中的）反面人物；淘气鬼

参考例句：

• The impression of villains was inescapable. 留下恶棍的印象是不可避免的。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Some villains robbed the widow of the savings. 有几个歹徒将寡妇的积蓄劫走了。 来自《现代英汉综合大词典》

17 humble   

adj.谦卑的，恭顺的；地位低下的；v.降低，贬低

参考例句：

• In my humble opinion,he will win the election.依我拙见，他将在选举中获胜。
• Defeat and failure make people humble.挫折与失败会使人谦卑。

18 humility   

n.谦逊，谦恭

参考例句：

• Humility often gains more than pride.谦逊往往比骄傲收益更多。
• His voice was still soft and filled with specious humility.他的声音还是那么温和，甚至有点谦卑。

19 strand   

vt.使（船）搁浅，使（某人）困于（某地）

参考例句：

• She tucked a loose strand of hair behind her ears.她把一缕散发夹到了耳后。
• The climbers had been stranded by a storm.登山者被暴风雨困住了。

20 encompassed   

v.围绕( encompass的过去式和过去分词 )；包围；包含；包括

参考例句：

• The enemy encompassed the city. 敌人包围了城市。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• I have encompassed him with every protection. 我已经把他保护得严严实实。 来自英汉文学 - 双城记

21 Christian   

adj.基督教徒的；n.基督教徒

参考例句：

• They always addressed each other by their Christian name.他们总是以教名互相称呼。
• His mother is a sincere Christian.他母亲是个虔诚的基督教徒。

22 humiliated   

感到羞愧的

参考例句：

• Parents are humiliated if their children behave badly when guests are present. 子女在客人面前举止失当，父母也失体面。
• He was ashamed and bitterly humiliated. 他感到羞耻，丢尽了面子。

23 lore   

n.传说；学问，经验，知识

参考例句：

• I will seek and question him of his lore.我倒要找上他，向他讨教他的渊博的学问。
• Early peoples passed on plant and animal lore through legend.早期人类通过传说传递有关植物和动物的知识。

24 anthropological   

adj.人类学的

参考例句：

• These facts of responsibility are an anthropological datums- varied and multiform. 这些道德事实是一种人类学资料——性质不同，形式各异。 来自哲学部分
• It is the most difficult of all anthropological data on which to "draw" the old Negro. 在所有的人类学资料中，最困难的事莫过于“刻划”古代的黑人。 来自辞典例句

25 flirtation   

n.调情，调戏，挑逗

参考例句：

• a brief and unsuccessful flirtation with the property market 对房地产市场一时兴起、并不成功的介入
• At recess Tom continued his flirtation with Amy with jubilant self-satisfaction. 课间休息的时候，汤姆继续和艾美逗乐，一副得意洋洋、心满意足的样子。 来自英汉文学 - 汤姆历险