美国国家公共电台 NPR Trump Says Secretary Of State Rex Tillerson Is Still On The Job

 

ROBERT SIEGEL, HOST:

The Flynn guilty plea, the Senate Republican tax bill, the talk of a shakeup at the State Department - those are the developments we're going to discuss now with our Friday political commentators¹, E.J. Dionne, columnist² with The Washington Post and co-author of "One Nation After Trump³." Good to see you, E.J.

E J DIONNE, BYLINE⁴: Good to see you.

SIEGEL: And Eliana Johnson, national political reporter for Politico. Hiya.

ELIANA JOHNSON: Hi. Thanks for having me.

SIEGEL: Eliana, let's start with you. Michael Flynn has pleaded guilty and made a deal. Prosecutors⁵ make deals with people to get at their higher-ups, not their subordinates. Who do you think you should be worrying right now about the Mueller investigation⁶?

JOHNSON: We've seen reports already that it is Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law, who directed Michael Flynn to speak to the Russian ambassador and urge him not to retaliate⁷ against the United States' imposition of sanctions, to wait for President Trump to be inaugurated. But the White House is pushing back on that, saying that it was a group effort.

I would say we really don't know right now. And what strikes me is administration officials I've spoke⁸ to have said it's a - it's one thing to make contact or be directed to make contact with a foreign country during the campaign. That would be deadly. The laws are a bit murkier⁹ in terms of making contact with a foreign country during the presidential transition - less clear how damning that may be.

On the other hand, Bob Mueller would not have entered into a plea agreement with Michael Flynn, the former national security adviser¹⁰, if he didn't think that he had something to trade. And that to me is what the White House really has to worry about.

SIEGEL: E.J., do you think it's harder at this point for Donald Trump to dismiss this investigation? Does it look like a more serious investigation with the Flynn guilty plea?

DIONNE: Well, knowing Donald Trump, he will continue to dismiss the investigation. But those dismissals become less and less believable. I think one of the things we've seen over the last month and a half is Mr. Mueller is systematic¹¹. He's disciplined. He's tough. He knows what he's doing, and he's working his way up. It's, as we've talked about before, something very similar to an investigation of the mob as he tries to gather people below to get at people above.

And so I think the White House has a lot of reason to be very concerned that this - that he is working his way up. And whether he gets to the very top, we're going to know soon. But there were reports today that President Trump was given a very, very grim accounting¹² of what's going on out here. And I think a grim view rather than Ty Cobb's Pollyannish view is the right one for the White House to take.

SIEGEL: Eliana, before moving onto another subject, do you get the sense that they are concerned at the White House? E.J. says they should be. I mean, do you have a sense that they're worried about this.

JOHNSON: Rank-and-file aides at the White House are absolutely worried. I think there's a general sense of paranoia¹³ this whole house of cards could fall. And I think the president himself is concerned about either - both what he knows and what he doesn't know. We're not quite certain how this will play out. But it's clear that Bob Mueller is systematic and clinical in his approach to this and has a plan and a strategy.

SIEGEL: Let's move onto - this is - we haven't said this in a long time. A big piece of legislation actually is moving toward success. The Republicans appear to have a bill they'll be able to tout¹⁴. It's a tax bill. According to independent estimates, it's a budget-buster. It helps a lot of corporations and rich people most - doesn't simplify our taxes. Eliana, can the Republican Party run on a bill like that in November and win and say, this is what we're for, this kind of a tax bill?

JOHNSON: I'm not sure the Republican Party will be running on the details of this bill. I think the Republican Party will be running on the fact that they have gotten something done in Washington and passed a major piece of legislation. And there's a distinction to be made there. I think if we see economic growth in the next two, three years, the Republican Party will reap great benefits. But as we know, tax cuts and economic growth are sort of loosely connected. But the president does tend to reap the benefits of that.

SIEGEL: E.J., can Democrats¹⁶ credibly¹⁷ say that the debt was OK when it was pushing 20 trillion under a Democratic president but 22 trillion is really fiscally¹⁸ irresponsible?

DIONNE: Well, what Democrats can say is that with the debt we have and when we are in relatively¹⁹ good economic circumstances, it's a terrible idea to cut taxes more than that and add to the deficit²⁰. More than that, this is one of the most reckless operations we've ever seen. It represents government for the few by the reckless, this tax bill does.

One Democrat¹⁵ told me that for the first time in a tax debate that he could remember, the Democrats have the upper hand because in the past when Republicans cut taxes a lot for the very rich, they also cut taxes for the middle class and others. This bill gives this giant corporate²¹ tax cut, pulling the corporate rate down to 20 percent from a nominal²² 35 percent. And it actually raises taxes, especially when the middle class tax cuts expire in 2025. Somebody wrote in The New Yorker that this is like a teaser rate in mortgage, which is up front. People will see some benefits.

SIEGEL: But you're saying...

DIONNE: But they disappear. And so I think...

SIEGEL: You're saying, E.J., that Democrats have the upper hand with public opinion. Obviously the Republicans are showing they can pass a bill, that they have the votes (unintelligible).

DIONNE: They think that for both their donors²³ and a - the very, very conservative part of their base, it's worth passing a bill which was being rewritten at the last minute like a sophomore²⁴ writing a term paper at 4 in the morning. They think that they have to get something done for their base and for their donors. But the polls show this bill to be very, very unpopular.

SIEGEL: I want to ask Eliana about one other thing that happened this week, which was the reports first in The New York Times that Rex Tillerson was about to be fired. Plans were being made. Then today, Donald Trump, after the weakest expression of support for Tillerson you could imagine yesterday - he's here.

JOHNSON: (Laughter).

SIEGEL: He tweeted...

JOHNSON: Statement of fact.

SIEGEL: Yeah. While we disagree on certain subjects, we work to will to get - we will - we work well together, and America is highly respected again. Do you think Tillerson has a future in Foggy Bottom or not?

JOHNSON: No.

SIEGEL: No.

JOHNSON: And that's been the case for the past six months or so. Donald Trump soured on Rex Tillerson very early. And for Tillerson supporters who rue²⁵ the fact that they're losing a more moderate voice in the administration, I would say he may be a moderate voice, but he has no influence. And the fact that he's likely to be replaced by a more hawkish²⁶ person like the CIA director, Mike Pompeo, I would say I think it's useful for the president to have somebody smart and who actually has influence over policymaking. And I think that's a good thing.

SIEGEL: Eliana Johnson of Politico and E.J. Dionne of The Washington Post, thanks to both of you.

DIONNE: Great to be with you.

(SOUNDBITE OF MAXWELL YOUNG'S "SPARK")

1 commentators   

n.评论员( commentator的名词复数 )；时事评论员；注释者；实况广播员

参考例句：

• Sports commentators repeat the same phrases ad nauseam. 体育解说员翻来覆去说着同样的词语，真叫人腻烦。
• Television sports commentators repeat the same phrases ad nauseam. 电视体育解说员说来说去就是那么几句话，令人厌烦。 来自《简明英汉词典》

2 columnist   

n.专栏作家

参考例句：

• The host was interviewing a local columnist.节目主持人正在同一位当地的专栏作家交谈。
• She's a columnist for USA Today.她是《今日美国报》的专栏作家。

3 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

4 byline   

n.署名；v.署名

参考例句：

• His byline was absent as well.他的署名也不见了。
• We wish to thank the author of this article which carries no byline.我们要感谢这篇文章的那位没有署名的作者。

5 prosecutors   

检举人( prosecutor的名词复数 )； 告发人； 起诉人； 公诉人

参考例句：

• In some places,public prosecutors are elected rather than appointed. 在有些地方，检察官是经选举而非任命产生的。 来自口语例句
• You've been summoned to the Prosecutors' Office, 2 days later. 你在两天以后被宣到了检察官的办公室。

6 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

7 retaliate   

v.报复，反击

参考例句：

• He sought every opportunity to retaliate against his enemy.他找机会向他的敌人反击。
• It is strictly forbidden to retaliate against the quality inspectors.严禁对质量检验人员进行打击报复。

8 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

9 murkier   

adj.阴暗的( murky的比较级 )；昏暗的；（指水）脏的；混浊的

参考例句：

• If not, the outcome may be a lot murkier. 而如不然，结果可能就会更加含糊不清。 来自互联网
• This leads us into the murkier areas of human behaviour. 这让我们看到了人类行为较阴暗的领域。 来自互联网

10 adviser   

n.劝告者，顾问

参考例句：

• They employed me as an adviser.他们聘请我当顾问。
• Our department has engaged a foreign teacher as phonetic adviser.我们系已经聘请了一位外籍老师作为语音顾问。

11 systematic   

adj.有系统的，有计划的，有方法的

参考例句：

• The way he works isn't very systematic.他的工作不是很有条理。
• The teacher made a systematic work of teaching.这个教师进行系统的教学工作。

12 accounting   

n.会计，会计学，借贷对照表

参考例句：

• A job fell vacant in the accounting department.财会部出现了一个空缺。
• There's an accounting error in this entry.这笔账目里有差错。

13 paranoia   

n.妄想狂，偏执狂；多疑症

参考例句：

• Her passion for cleanliness borders on paranoia.她的洁癖近乎偏执。
• The push for reform is also motivated by political paranoia.竞选的改革运动也受到政治偏执狂症的推动。

14 tout   

v.推销，招徕；兜售；吹捧，劝诱

参考例句：

• They say it will let them tout progress in the war.他们称这将有助于鼓吹他们在战争中的成果。
• If your case studies just tout results,don't bother requiring registration to view them.如果你的案例研究只是吹捧结果，就别烦扰别人来注册访问了。

15 democrat   

n.民主主义者，民主人士；民主党党员

参考例句：

• The Democrat and the Public criticized each other.民主党人和共和党人互相攻击。
• About two years later,he was defeated by Democrat Jimmy Carter.大约两年后，他被民主党人杰米卡特击败。

16 democrats   

n.民主主义者，民主人士( democrat的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The Democrats held a pep rally on Capitol Hill yesterday. 民主党昨天在国会山召开了竞选誓师大会。
• The democrats organize a filibuster in the senate. 民主党党员组织了阻挠议事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

17 credibly   

ad.可信地；可靠地

参考例句：

• I am credibly informed that. 由可靠方面听说。
• An effective management software ensures network to run credibly. 一个高效的网管软件是网络运行的可靠保证。

18 fiscally   

在国库方面，财政上，在国库岁入方面

参考例句：

• Nor will fiscally stretched governments pump more money into the political equivalent of a leper colony. 财政吃紧的政府也不愿将更多的钱投入这个避之唯恐不及的政治瘟疫区。
• We are more fiscally constrained, which forces us to work smarter and more efficiently. 与F-15相比我们资金上的限制更大了，美女类小游戏，这迫使我们更为精心和有效地工作。

19 relatively   

adv.比较...地，相对地

参考例句：

• The rabbit is a relatively recent introduction in Australia.兔子是相对较新引入澳大利亚的物种。
• The operation was relatively painless.手术相对来说不痛。

20 deficit   

n.亏空，亏损；赤字，逆差

参考例句：

• The directors have reported a deficit of 2.5 million dollars.董事们报告赤字为250万美元。
• We have a great deficit this year.我们今年有很大亏损。

21 corporate   

adj.共同的，全体的；公司的，企业的

参考例句：

• This is our corporate responsibility.这是我们共同的责任。
• His corporate's life will be as short as a rabbit's tail.他的公司的寿命是兔子尾巴长不了。

22 nominal   

adj.名义上的；(金额、租金)微不足道的

参考例句：

• The king was only the nominal head of the state. 国王只是这个国家名义上的元首。
• The charge of the box lunch was nominal.午餐盒饭收费很少。

23 donors   

n.捐赠者( donor的名词复数 )；献血者；捐血者；器官捐献者

参考例句：

• Please email us to be removed from our active list of blood donors. 假如你想把自己的名字从献血联系人名单中删去，请给我们发电子邮件。
• About half this amount comes from individual donors and bequests. 这笔钱大约有一半来自个人捐赠及遗赠。 来自《简明英汉词典》

24 sophomore   

n.大学二年级生；adj.第二年的

参考例句：

• He is in his sophomore year.他在读二年级。
• I'm a college sophomore majoring in English.我是一名英语专业的大二学生。

25 rue   

n.懊悔，芸香，后悔；v.后悔，悲伤，懊悔

参考例句：

• You'll rue having failed in the examination.你会悔恨考试失败。
• You're going to rue this the longest day that you live.你要终身悔恨不尽呢。

26 hawkish   

adj. 鹰派的, 强硬派的

参考例句：

• My staff's advice that first day was amazingly hawkish. 在第一天，我的僚属们的意见是令人吃惊的鹰派意见。
• Antiwar groups fear Barack Obama may create hawkish Cabinet. 反战团体担心巴拉克·奥巴马可以创建强硬派内阁。