美国国家公共电台 NPR With 'Phantom Thread,' Director Paul Thomas Anderson Offers Audiences An Intimate Film

 

ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:

This is a movie season where films compete to be bigger, louder and flashier. Right now you can choose to spend a couple of hours in a dark theater with jedis, monsters or singing circus impresarios¹. In the middle of all this comes a quiet, intimate movie. It's called "Phantom² Thread," and it's about a British dressmaker named Reynolds Woodcock played by Daniel Day-Lewis.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "PHANTOM THREAD")

DANIEL DAY-LEWIS: (As Reynolds Woodcock) Chic³ - oh, don't you start using that filthy⁴, little word, chic. Whoever invented that ought to be spanked⁵ in public. I don't even know what that word means.

SHAPIRO: He runs a fashion house with his sister, Cyril, played by Lesley Manville. Woodcock's fastidious life is upended when a woman named Alma becomes his muse⁶ and begins to challenge him. She is played by the actress Vicky Krieps of Luxembourg.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "PHANTOM THREAD")

VICKY KRIEPS: (As Alma) And I can stand endlessly. No one can stand as long as I can.

SHAPIRO: This movie was written and directed by Paul Thomas Anderson. He last collaborated⁷ with Daniel Day-Lewis 10 years ago on the film "There Will Be Blood." I asked Anderson to describe the idea that became "Phantom Thread."

PAUL THOMAS ANDERSON: It was a romance picture, a central relationship between a man and a woman. But the premise⁸ within that was of an illness. What happens in a relationship when a very dominating man is flat on his back and he becomes incredibly needy⁹ and incredibly open? And what happens when his partner spots that and thinks, oh, this is a good position for you to be in? It's kind of a devilish idea that we kind of took and ran away with.

SHAPIRO: Tell us about the main character played by Daniel Day-Lewis. Reynolds Woodcock is a man in a world of women, and he is a very particular person.

ANDERSON: He is. He's a very demanding, very particular person. There's a lot of rules. There's a lot of superstitions¹⁰, which implies something peculiar¹¹ about a character. And that's him. There's no changing him. He's very clear about what he will do and will not do.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "PHANTOM THREAD")

DAY-LEWIS: (As Reynolds Woodcock) As I think you know, Alma, I prefer my asparagus with oil and salt. Knowing this, you have prepared the asparagus with butter. Right now I'm just admiring my own gallantry for eating it the way you've prepared it.

ANDERSON: And that's a great character to have because that essentially¹² means you get to figure out how to come in and throw a smoke bomb in the middle of that.

SHAPIRO: (Laughter).

ANDERSON: It's always nice to do that.

SHAPIRO: You crafted this movie from scratch. And as I was watching it, there are such long stretches where little or nothing is said. I thought, this cannot possibly be conveyed in a screenplay. How did you convey it?

ANDERSON: Well, you know, it's funny. If I showed you the screenplay, you are exactly right. It would look very, very thin, you know, to say, Reynolds looks at Alma; Alma looks at Reynolds; cut to the next scene, you know? But hopefully the accumulation of events leads you to understand just what that might mean and just the weight that those looks might carry.

Without giving too much away of our film, we build to a series of looks. And we - you know, we hopefully build that up within our story that our film is basically a staring contest between two people and the idea whoever blinks first is going to lose. So you have inherently built into that a kind of battle of visual looks which doesn't look good on the page. You're right. But the good thing about a movie is you don't have to read it. You get to see it.

SHAPIRO: I would think that as a director, creating that kind of movie must put incredible pressure on your own sense of what is aesthetically¹³ right because you watch a scene a thousand times and have to ask, is this floating on the bubble, or has the bubble deflated¹⁴ when there's that much silence and such long stares and pauses.

ANDERSON: Well, there's something very thrilling about obviously two great actors - let's say three, actually, because and a lot of times, we have a three-way; our story's kind of a triangle - and have them sitting around a table, staring at each other. If you have Lesley Manville, Daniel Day-Lewis and Vicky Krieps, you - it's a satisfying day's work even if no one says a word.

SHAPIRO: You're going to be OK (laughter).

ANDERSON: Yes, you know you're going to be OK (laughter).

SHAPIRO: Reynolds Woodcock sews things into linings¹⁶ of clothing that presumably no one will ever see. Where did that idea come from - photographs or messages?

ANDERSON: Two places. The first place I'd ever heard about it was - there was the story recently of Alexander McQueen writing a very dirty note inside a coat that was made for Prince Charles.

SHAPIRO: (Laughter).

ANDERSON: Now, that's never been proven. I don't - we - some people say...

SHAPIRO: So this a perhaps apocryphal¹⁷ story.

ANDERSON: Exactly - well, (laughter) some people say it's true. Some people say it ain't so. But...

SHAPIRO: We'll have to ask Prince Charles.

ANDERSON: Well - he's going to have to go dig that coat out I think and rummage¹⁸ around and see what's there. But the point is - is that that was the first time I'd heard of such a thing. But in doing the research for this and getting further and further back, it turned out to be something that was common, particularly in wedding dresses made by young, unmarried women - unmarried seamstresses who would be very paranoid that by working on a wedding dress, by touching¹⁹ it, it would somehow curse them, that they would never be married or they would marry only bald men or - all these kinds of crazy superstitions.

And so as a way to combat that, they came up with little hooks for themselves, sowing certain - a hair of their hair in the lining¹⁵ of the dress or a secret message to their future husband or whatever it was. That became a common thread, a common practice...

SHAPIRO: So to speak.

ANDERSON: ...That we discovered - so to speak, yeah - that seemed very visual, really interesting. Really, it's great. It's a great little hook to put in the film.

SHAPIRO: Tell me about your work with the costume designer, Mark Bridges. Clothes are so central to this film. How did you make dresses that looked like they were worthy²⁰ of royalty²¹ or movie stars in London in the 1950s?

ANDERSON: Well, the path is usually you kind of put a best-of up on the wall. But then you have to look at it from a different angle. Well, what is Reynolds Woodcock? Who is he? He's English. And so we - the designs started becoming English. So building it up from what Reynolds would be interested in, you realize just how deeply English he is and that all the influence in his life is that. You know, what are the fabrics²² that he gravitates towards? And so that becomes a three-way collaboration²³ between Daniel and Mark and myself. And to be honest, I have the least patience of the three of us.

SHAPIRO: (Laughter).

ANDERSON: So I would tap out at a certain point, and then they'd go through, like, three-day conversations about lace. And you know, I would just say, right.

SHAPIRO: (Laughter) Right.

ANDERSON: Let me know when you guys have decided²⁴ (laughter) what it's going to be.

SHAPIRO: So W magazine said "Phantom Thread" is one of the most beguiling²⁵ portrayals²⁶ of fashion in the history of film, but in the end, it's not a film about fashion. What do you think it is about?

ANDERSON: I think it's about need, the need between people. We have a line that Reynolds asks Alma when they're having a fight.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "PHANTOM THREAD")

DAY-LEWIS: (As Reynolds Woodcock) What happened to make you behave like this? Is it because you think I don't need you?

KRIEPS: (As Alma) Yes.

DAY-LEWIS: (As Reynolds Woodcock) I don't.

KRIEPS: (As Alma) Why, that's very predictable of you.

ANDERSON: That just tells me he's missing the point entirely²⁷ about what need is, you know? Of course you could say you don't need anybody, but the point is to need them. And that is a challenging thing I think for people sometimes in relationships.

SHAPIRO: Paul Thomas Anderson is the writer and director of the new movie "Phantom Thread." Thanks so much for talking with us.

ANDERSON: Anytime. Thank you.

1 impresarios   

n.（演出的）主办人，经理( impresario的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• About that, the impresarios are brutally candid. 对此，接待活动组织者有一针见血的评论。 来自互联网
• Bluntly, advertising agencies, theatre impresarios and television producers all preferred to hire stunning females. 坦率地说，广告公司、剧院经理和电视制作人都更愿意招聘漂亮女性。 来自互联网

2 phantom   

n.幻影，虚位，幽灵；adj.错觉的，幻影的，幽灵的

参考例句：

• I found myself staring at her as if she were a phantom.我发现自己瞪大眼睛看着她，好像她是一个幽灵。
• He is only a phantom of a king.他只是有名无实的国王。

3 chic   

n./adj.别致(的)，时髦(的)，讲究的

参考例句：

• She bought a chic little hat.她买了一顶别致的小帽子。
• The chic restaurant is patronized by many celebrities.这家时髦的饭店常有名人光顾。

4 filthy   

adj.卑劣的；恶劣的，肮脏的

参考例句：

• The whole river has been fouled up with filthy waste from factories.整条河都被工厂的污秽废物污染了。
• You really should throw out that filthy old sofa and get a new one.你真的应该扔掉那张肮脏的旧沙发，然后再去买张新的。

5 spanked   

v.用手掌打( spank的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• We spanked along in his new car. 我们坐在他的新车里兜风。 来自辞典例句
• The nurse spanked the naughty child. 保育员打了一下那个淘气的孩子的屁股。 来自辞典例句

6 muse   

n.缪斯（希腊神话中的女神），创作灵感

参考例句：

• His muse had deserted him,and he could no longer write.他已无灵感，不能再写作了。
• Many of the papers muse on the fate of the President.很多报纸都在揣测总统的命运。

7 collaborated   

合作( collaborate的过去式和过去分词 )； 勾结叛国

参考例句：

• We have collaborated on many projects over the years. 这些年来我们合作搞了许多项目。
• We have collaborated closely with the university on this project. 我们与大学在这个专案上紧密合作。

8 premise   

n.前提；v.提论，预述

参考例句：

• Let me premise my argument with a bit of history.让我引述一些史实作为我立论的前提。
• We can deduce a conclusion from the premise.我们可以从这个前提推出结论。

9 needy   

adj.贫穷的，贫困的，生活艰苦的

参考例句：

• Although he was poor,he was quite generous to his needy friends.他虽穷，但对贫苦的朋友很慷慨。
• They awarded scholarships to needy students.他们给贫苦学生颁发奖学金。

10 superstitions   

迷信，迷信行为( superstition的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Old superstitions seem incredible to educated people. 旧的迷信对于受过教育的人来说是不可思议的。
• Do away with all fetishes and superstitions. 破除一切盲目崇拜和迷信。

11 peculiar   

adj.古怪的，异常的；特殊的，特有的

参考例句：

• He walks in a peculiar fashion.他走路的样子很奇特。
• He looked at me with a very peculiar expression.他用一种很奇怪的表情看着我。

12 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

13 aesthetically   

adv.美地，艺术地

参考例句：

• Segmental construction contributes toward aesthetically pleasing structures in many different sites. 对于许多不同的现场条件，分段施工都能提供美观，颇有魄力的桥型结构。
• All isolation techniques may be aesthetically unacceptable or even dirty. 所有的隔离方法都有可能在美观方面使人难以接受，或甚至是肮脏的。

14 deflated   

adj. 灰心丧气的

参考例句：

• I was quite deflated by her lack of interest in my suggestions.他对我的建议兴趣不大，令我感到十分气馁。
• He was deflated by the news.这消息令他泄气。

15 lining   

n.衬里，衬料

参考例句：

• The lining of my coat is torn.我的外套衬里破了。
• Moss makes an attractive lining to wire baskets.用苔藓垫在铁丝篮里很漂亮。

16 linings   

n.衬里( lining的名词复数 )；里子；衬料；组织

参考例句：

• a pair of leather gloves with fur linings 一双毛皮衬里的皮手套
• Many of the garments have the customers' name tags sewn into the linings. 这些衣服有很多内衬上缝有顾客的姓名签。 来自辞典例句

17 apocryphal   

adj.假冒的，虚假的

参考例句：

• Most of the story about his private life was probably apocryphal.有关他私生活的事可能大部分都是虚构的。
• This may well be an apocryphal story.这很可能是个杜撰的故事。

18 rummage   

v./n.翻寻，仔细检查

参考例句：

• He had a good rummage inside the sofa.他把沙发内部彻底搜寻了一翻。
• The old lady began to rummage in her pocket for her spectacles.老太太开始在口袋里摸索，找她的眼镜。

19 touching   

adj.动人的，使人感伤的

参考例句：

• It was a touching sight.这是一幅动人的景象。
• His letter was touching.他的信很感人。

20 worthy   

adj.(of)值得的，配得上的；有价值的

参考例句：

• I did not esteem him to be worthy of trust.我认为他不值得信赖。
• There occurred nothing that was worthy to be mentioned.没有值得一提的事发生。

21 royalty   

n.皇家，皇族

参考例句：

• She claims to be descended from royalty.她声称她是皇室后裔。
• I waited on tables，and even catered to royalty at the Royal Albert Hall.我做过服务生， 甚至在皇家阿伯特大厅侍奉过皇室的人。

22 fabrics   

织物( fabric的名词复数 )； 布； 构造； （建筑物的）结构（如墙、地面、屋顶）：质地

参考例句：

• cotton fabrics and synthetics 棉织物与合成织物
• The fabrics are merchandised through a network of dealers. 通过经销网点销售纺织品。

23 collaboration   

n.合作，协作；勾结

参考例句：

• The two companies are working in close collaboration each other.这两家公司密切合作。
• He was shot for collaboration with the enemy.他因通敌而被枪毙了。

24 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

25 beguiling   

adj.欺骗的，诱人的v.欺骗( beguile的现在分词 )；使陶醉；使高兴；消磨（时间等）

参考例句：

• Her beauty was beguiling. 她美得迷人。
• His date was curvaceously beguiling. 他约会是用来欺骗女性的。 来自《简明英汉词典》

26 portrayals   

n.画像( portrayal的名词复数 )；描述；描写；描摹

参考例句：

• And painters alluded to her eroticism in their bare breasted portrayals of the dying queen. 画家们把她描绘为裸胸垂死的贪欲的女王。 来自互联网

27 entirely   

ad.全部地，完整地；完全地，彻底地

参考例句：

• The fire was entirely caused by their neglect of duty. 那场火灾完全是由于他们失职而引起的。
• His life was entirely given up to the educational work. 他的一生统统献给了教育工作。