美国国家公共电台 NPR Trump Administration Wants North Korea At Negotiating Table On Nuclear Weapons

 

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

America's top diplomat¹ says he wants direct talks with North Korea. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson says this is the goal - North Korea must end up with no nuclear weapons at all.

DAVID GREENE, HOST:

Tillerson called for direct talks in an interview with NPR. He is preparing today to chair a meeting of the U.N. Security Council. The world's great powers consider a nation that's set off nuclear devices and is testing missiles to deliver them. President Trump² said yesterday there is the chance of a, quote, "major, major conflict."

INSKEEP: Despite some bluster³, the president so far has used the same basic tools that past presidents have tried - economic sanctions against North Korea and seeking help from North Korea's neighbor, China. Weeks ago, Secretary Tillerson signaled a desire to try something different. And that was our starting point when we sat facing each other at the State Department.

We heard when you said the era of strategic patience is over, so we know what your policy is not. Is there a word or phrase you can give us to say what your approach to North Korea is?

REX TILLERSON: Yes. Our approach to North Korea is to have them change their posture⁴ towards any future talks. I think when we say that our strategic patience is over - in the past, I think we have always negotiated our way to the negotiating table. When they act up, we would negotiate our way to get them to come to the table and then decide what we're going to give them to have them behave.

We don't have the running room left to do that now, given how far advanced their program has become. So this is an approach that is to put pressure on them through implementation⁵ of all the sanctions, as well as other diplomatic pressures and calling on others to cause them to change their view of what will really allow them to achieve the security that they say they seek.

INSKEEP: Do you intend to direct talks with North Korea? Is that your goal?

TILLERSON: Obviously, that would be the way we would like to solve this but North Korea has to decide they're ready to talk to us about the right agenda. And the right agenda is not simply stopping where they are for a few more months or a few more years and then resuming things. That's been the agenda for the last 20 years.

INSKEEP: Well, help me understand what success is from your point of view. What does the goal have to be?

TILLERSON: Well, our goal is the same as that of China, which is a denuclearized Korean peninsula.

INSKEEP: No nuclear weapons for North Korea?

TILLERSON: A denuclearized Korean Peninsula. It's very clear. That's China's stated policy. It has been our stated policy. It's been the stated policy of our allies in the region. And I would, you know, I would quickly add, you know, we did our part. We took our nuclear weapons out of the Korean Peninsula. It's time for North Korea to take their weapons out as well.

INSKEEP: Is that a realistic goal?

TILLERSON: It is our goal. It is our only goal.

INSKEEP: And would you go so far as to say that is an absolute goal? I'm thinking of the way that President Obama during the nuclear negotiations⁶ with Iran said Iran will not have a nuclear weapon - period.

TILLERSON: Well, we...

INSKEEP: Are you prepared to say North Korea will not end this process with nuclear weapons - period?

TILLERSON: We must have a denuclearized Korean Peninsula. That is our goal, pure and simple.

INSKEEP: Nothing less?

TILLERSON: Nothing less.

INSKEEP: Regardless of the methods?

TILLERSON: I'm not sure what you mean when you say regardless of the methods.

INSKEEP: I guess I'm asking if that's a red line for you, North Korea keeping any nuclear weapons at all.

TILLERSON: We don't have any red lines. I think what you're talking about perhaps is, how do we get there? And we say we can't begin the process of getting there until North Korea comes to the table with a willingness to talk about how we get there and how they achieve their objective.

You know, if you listen to the North Koreans and the regime in Pyongyang, their reason for having nuclear weapons is they believe it is their only pathway to secure the ongoing⁷ existence of their regime. What we hope to convince them is you do not need these weapons to secure the existence of your regime. We've been...

INSKEEP: Meaning you could assure the existence - or the continued existence...

TILLERSON: We have been very clear as to what our objectives are and equally clear what our objectives are not. And we do not seek regime change. We do not seek a collapse⁸ of the regime. We do not seek an accelerated reunification of the peninsula. We seek a denuclearized Korean Peninsula. And again, that is entirely⁹ consistent with the objectives of others in the region as well.

INSKEEP: Mr. Secretary, people will know that you're trying to work through China on this and make sure that China is applying the appropriate pressure, one of many things you're trying to deal with China on. I'd like to ask about the relationship between the president and the president of China, Xi Jinping. How important is that personal relationship between the two leaders?

TILLERSON: Well, it's extraordinarily¹⁰ important first to just the broader relationship of where U.S.-China relations are going to find themselves over the next two to three to four decades. I think we are at a bit of an inflection point in the U.S.-China relationship. Now, North Korea is a threat that presents itself right up front to both of us. And in our conversations with the Chinese - and we have been very clear to them.

I was on my initial trips to Beijing and then in the visit of President Xi to Mar-A-Lago, the president and I were able to be very clear to them that things have to change in North Korea. And we need their help doing that. What China is beginning to re-evaluate is whether North Korea is any kind of an asset to them or whether North Korea themselves and the regime have become a liability to China's own security because as I've said to my Chinese counterparts, those missiles go in all directions.

INSKEEP: When you say two or three or four decades, suddenly many things beyond North Korea are on the table. China wants to dominate its region, wants to dominate the South China Sea, has a different view of the world than the United States. How do you persuade China to see its interests differently and in a less threatening manner to the United States long-term?

TILLERSON: Well, I think we need to understand one another and understand that China is on a pathway of continuing to emerge with their own people in terms of providing a quality of life to their own population. You know, they've made enormous progress over the last 10 to 15 years. Five hundred million Chinese have moved out of poverty into middle class status.

Our understanding of them, and I think they need to have an understanding of us, is that we do not seek to constrain¹¹ their need to continue their economic growth and to continue to help their people enjoy a better quality of life. As they are pursuing that though, they have to do that in a way that supports stability around the rest of the world as well.

INSKEEP: Does that mean they need to constrain their ambitions or that you need to constrain them?

TILLERSON: Not their economic ambitions.

INSKEEP: Their strategic ambitions, their ambitions to power.

TILLERSON: Well, it depends on how they view those strategic ambitions and whether those present a threat to stability for the rest of the world or not. And I think, you know, a specific example obviously is their activity towards island building in the South China Sea and in particular their militarization of those islands.

We have had very, very frank conversations and exchanges with the Chinese around these activities and our view that this destabilizes the areas of the South China Sea, rather than create stability.

INSKEEP: OK. That's part of our talk with Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. He was at the State Department.

1 diplomat   

n.外交官，外交家；能交际的人，圆滑的人

参考例句：

• The diplomat threw in a joke, and the tension was instantly relieved.那位外交官插进一个笑话，紧张的气氛顿时缓和下来。
• He served as a diplomat in Russia before the war.战前他在俄罗斯当外交官。

2 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

3 bluster   

v.猛刮；怒冲冲的说；n.吓唬，怒号；狂风声

参考例句：

• We could hear the bluster of the wind and rain.我们能听到狂风暴雨的吹打声。
• He was inclined to bluster at first,but he soon dropped.起初他老爱吵闹一阵，可是不久就不做声了。

4 posture   

n.姿势，姿态，心态，态度；v.作出某种姿势

参考例句：

• The government adopted an uncompromising posture on the issue of independence.政府在独立这一问题上采取了毫不妥协的态度。
• He tore off his coat and assumed a fighting posture.他脱掉上衣，摆出一副打架的架势。

5 implementation   

n.实施，贯彻

参考例句：

• Implementation of the program is now well underway.这一项目的实施现在行情看好。

6 negotiations   

协商( negotiation的名词复数 )； 谈判； 完成（难事）； 通过

参考例句：

• negotiations for a durable peace 为持久和平而进行的谈判
• Negotiations have failed to establish any middle ground. 谈判未能达成任何妥协。

7 ongoing   

adj.进行中的，前进的

参考例句：

• The problem is ongoing.这个问题尚未解决。
• The issues raised in the report relate directly to Age Concern's ongoing work in this area.报告中提出的问题与“关心老人”组织在这方面正在做的工作有直接的关系。

8 collapse   

vi.累倒；昏倒；倒塌；塌陷

参考例句：

• The country's economy is on the verge of collapse.国家的经济已到了崩溃的边缘。
• The engineer made a complete diagnosis of the bridge's collapse.工程师对桥的倒塌做了一次彻底的调查分析。

9 entirely   

ad.全部地，完整地；完全地，彻底地

参考例句：

• The fire was entirely caused by their neglect of duty. 那场火灾完全是由于他们失职而引起的。
• His life was entirely given up to the educational work. 他的一生统统献给了教育工作。

10 extraordinarily   

adv.格外地；极端地

参考例句：

• She is an extraordinarily beautiful girl.她是个美丽非凡的姑娘。
• The sea was extraordinarily calm that morning.那天清晨，大海出奇地宁静。

11 constrain   

vt.限制，约束；克制，抑制

参考例句：

• She tried to constrain herself from a cough in class.上课时她竭力忍住不咳嗽。
• The study will examine the factors which constrain local economic growth.这项研究将考查抑制当地经济发展的因素。