美国国家公共电台 NPR 'The Once And Future Liberal' Looks At Shortfalls Of American Liberalism

 

ROBERT SIEGEL, HOST:

Last November, Columbia University historian Mark Lilla wrote a post mortem of the 2016 election for The New York Times. Writing as a liberal, professor Lilla criticized his fellow liberals and Democrats¹ for leading their party into the self-defeating politics of identity liberalism. In place of a broad, national appeal, Hillary Clinton and the Democrats, he said, had campaigned on a celebration of difference - difference in race, in gender², in orientation³. Lilla wrote scoldingly, national politics in healthy periods is not about difference. It is about commonality.

Well, Mark Lilla was applauded by some readers and denounced by others for, in the words of one critic, making white supremacy⁴ respectable. Lilla has expanded upon his ideas in a provocative⁵ new book called "The Once And Future Liberal," and he joins us now. Welcome to the program.

MARK LILLA: Glad to be here.

SIEGEL: There's a phrase from the days of the New Left that you treat as a slogan of identity liberalism - the personal is political. What's wrong with that proposition?

LILLA: Well, as stated in that way, there's not a big problem with it. I mean, essentially⁶ it says that there are things in political life that impinge on us. And so it was a slogan that was picked up by women to say that equality in the workplace is a political issue, equality within the home, rights to abortion⁷ and on and on, that political issues affect us personally. That's true. But what happened as the '70s went into the '80s is that that slogan got reversed.

And rather than saying the personal is the political, it became the political is personal. That is, that my politics and my interest in politics and my commitment in politics does not extend beyond how I understand myself. And so politics becomes an expression of self rather than kind of getting out of one's personal self and connecting with other people for common purposes and common goals, which is what the feminist⁸ movement was doing back in the '60s and early '70s.

SIEGEL: But why shouldn't Democrats say, we do have a uniting vision, and it's of a country that guarantees dignity and opportunity to all, and, yeah, now we'll enumerate⁹ the various groups that are likely to experience indignities¹⁰ or lack of opportunities?

LILLA: Well, the first part of that is excellent. It rallies people around principles. And there are two basic principles that I think have been consistent for American liberalism ever since the New Deal. One is solidarity¹¹ and the other is equal protection under the law. And most of the concerns of identity groups can be put under the latter category. And most of the issues that today's progressives worry about can be put under the rubric of solidarity.

But the moment you start not only listing groups but thinking in terms of groups, two things are going to happen. One is you're going to leave somebody out. And if you're going to mention groups in America, you'd better mention all of them. And if you pay attention - had you paid attention to what was going on on Fox News and right-wing radio during the 2016 campaign, they picked up on this. That - they picked up on the fact that Hillary Clinton would enumerate all these groups and none of those categories applied¹² to them.

SIEGEL: You write at one point, (reading) elections are not prayer meetings, and no one is interested in your personal testimony¹³. They're not about exposing degenerates¹⁴ and running them out of town. If you want to save America's soul, consider becoming a minister - I'm skipping ahead. (Reading) If you want to win the country back from the right and bring about lasting¹⁵ change for the people you care about, it's time to descend¹⁶ from the pulpit.

LILLA: Yes, and especially when it comes to race matters. Imagine that you're canvassing¹⁷ door to door somewhere in Missouri or Mississippi and you knock on someone's door and you say, I'm here from the Democratic Party, and I'd like to ask for your vote. But before I do, I have a series of tickets to give you. The first ticket is for your privilege. The second one is for being a racist¹⁸. And the third one is for being homophobic. I hope to see you on Tuesday.

SIEGEL: Yeah.

LILLA: Now, that is not going to attract to persuade anybody.

SIEGEL: You write in the book, electoral politics is a little like fishing. And you say, (reading) when you fish, you get up early in the morning. You go to where the fish are, not to where you might wish them to be. You drop bait into the water, bait being defined as something they want to eat, not as healthy choices. And once the fish realize they're hooked, they may resist. Let them. Loosen your line. Eventually they'll calm down. The identity liberals' approach to fishing is to remain on shore, yelling at the fish about the historical wrongs visited on them by the sea and the need for aquatic¹⁹ life to renounce²⁰ its privilege, all in the hope that the fish will collectively confess their sins and swim to shore to be netted.

That's a rather scathing²¹ image of Democratic politics.

LILLA: And then I add, if that's your picture of politics, you'd better become a vegan.

SIEGEL: Become a vegan (laughter). You took a lot of criticism when your article in the Times first came out. And the general criticism seemed to be that by eliminating an emphasis on identity politics and on - the fancy word is the narratives²² - of the various people who have experienced either discrimination or indignity²³ in their lives, it's a turn back to politics dominated by whites, by men. I suppose you say by straight men. Do you believe there's an inherent virtue²⁴ in diversity? Is life better for the people surrounding you at work, in your neighborhood to be diverse?

LILLA: Absolutely. In order to understand America's history and America's current social problems, you need to understand identity. That's absolutely right. However, elections are not seminars. They are not about giving an account of how we got here. They are about persuading people in any way you can without falling into some sort of contradiction or making some moral mistake to convince them that the principles you stand for they should stand for and they will protect them.

So we need to distinguish what goes on in the academy, what goes on in social reform. You know, one of the forces that helped increase toleration in this country was "Sesame Street." There was a television show long ago called "Murphy Brown." It was the first time that a single mother was shown in a good light on television.

Hollywood has done a lot by being out ahead on these issues and changing the hearts and minds of Americans. All that's good. I'm for all of that. But when you go out and you're trying to persuade someone who hasn't been voting for you, who doesn't recognize themselves in the message that you're giving, you have to take a completely different approach.

SIEGEL: When you read about or saw or heard about events in Charlottesville over the past weekend, did you see any relation to what you've been writing about and what you've been critical about in our politics?

LILLA: Well, my question is, why is this happening now? Why did this fascist²⁵ march happen now and not, for instance, when we had a black president? And the reason is that Donald Trump's president. And he has emboldened²⁶ these people. Well, how did that happen? Well - and it's not just a question of the last election. It's why over two generations we have simply lost a large chunk²⁷ of the country and liberalism has become a dirty word.

SIEGEL: Mark Lilla, author of "The Once And Future Liberal: After Identity Politics." Professor Lilla, thanks for talking with us.

LILLA: Thanks for having me.

(SOUNDBITE OF VHS COLLECTION SONG, "LATE NIGHT (IT'S OKAY)")

1 democrats   

n.民主主义者，民主人士( democrat的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The Democrats held a pep rally on Capitol Hill yesterday. 民主党昨天在国会山召开了竞选誓师大会。
• The democrats organize a filibuster in the senate. 民主党党员组织了阻挠议事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

2 gender   

n.（生理上的）性，（名词、代词等的）性

参考例句：

• French differs from English in having gender for all nouns.法语不同于英语，所有的名词都有性。
• Women are sometimes denied opportunities solely because of their gender.妇女有时仅仅因为性别而无法获得种种机会。

3 orientation   

n.方向，目标；熟悉，适应，情况介绍

参考例句：

• Children need some orientation when they go to school.小孩子上学时需要适应。
• The traveller found his orientation with the aid of a good map.旅行者借助一幅好地图得知自己的方向。

4 supremacy   

n.至上；至高权力

参考例句：

• No one could challenge her supremacy in gymnastics.她是最优秀的体操运动员，无人能胜过她。
• Theoretically,she holds supremacy as the head of the state.从理论上说，她作为国家的最高元首拥有至高无上的权力。

5 provocative   

adj.挑衅的，煽动的，刺激的，挑逗的

参考例句：

• She wore a very provocative dress.她穿了一件非常性感的裙子。
• His provocative words only fueled the argument further.他的挑衅性讲话只能使争论进一步激化。

6 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

7 abortion   

n.流产，堕胎

参考例句：

• She had an abortion at the women's health clinic.她在妇女保健医院做了流产手术。
• A number of considerations have led her to have a wilful abortion.多种考虑使她执意堕胎。

8 feminist   

adj.主张男女平等的，女权主义的

参考例句：

• She followed the feminist movement.她支持女权运动。
• From then on,feminist studies on literature boomed.从那时起，男女平等受教育的现象开始迅速兴起。

9 enumerate   

v.列举，计算，枚举，数

参考例句：

• The heroic deeds of the people's soldiers are too numerous to enumerate.人民子弟兵的英雄事迹举不胜举。
• Its applications are too varied to enumerate.它的用途不胜枚举。

10 indignities   

n.侮辱，轻蔑( indignity的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The soldiers who were captured suffered many indignities at the hands of the enemy. 被俘的士兵在敌人手中受尽侮辱。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• What sort of indignities would he be forced to endure? 他会被迫忍受什么样的侮辱呢？ 来自辞典例句

11 solidarity   

n.团结；休戚相关

参考例句：

• They must preserve their solidarity.他们必须维护他们的团结。
• The solidarity among China's various nationalities is as firm as a rock.中国各族人民之间的团结坚如磐石。

12 applied   

adj.应用的；v.应用，适用

参考例句：

• She plans to take a course in applied linguistics.她打算学习应用语言学课程。
• This cream is best applied to the face at night.这种乳霜最好晚上擦脸用。

13 testimony   

n.证词；见证，证明

参考例句：

• The testimony given by him is dubious.他所作的证据是可疑的。
• He was called in to bear testimony to what the police officer said.他被传入为警官所说的话作证。

14 degenerates   

衰退，堕落，退化( degenerate的第三人称单数 )

参考例句：

• Liberty often degenerates into lawlessness. 自由常常变质为无法无天。
• Her health degenerates rapidly. 她的健康状况迅速恶化。

15 lasting   

adj.永久的，永恒的；vbl.持续，维持

参考例句：

• The lasting war debased the value of the dollar.持久的战争使美元贬值。
• We hope for a lasting settlement of all these troubles.我们希望这些纠纷能获得永久的解决。

16 descend   

vt./vi.传下来，下来，下降

参考例句：

• I hope the grace of God would descend on me.我期望上帝的恩惠。
• We're not going to descend to such methods.我们不会沦落到使用这种手段。

17 canvassing   

v.（在政治方面）游说( canvass的现在分词 )；调查（如选举前选民的）意见；为讨论而提出（意见等）；详细检查

参考例句：

• He spent the whole month canvassing for votes. 他花了整整一个月四处游说拉选票。
• I'm canvassing for the Conservative Party. 我在为保守党拉选票。 来自辞典例句

18 racist   

n.种族主义者，种族主义分子

参考例句：

• a series of racist attacks 一连串的种族袭击行为
• His speech presented racist ideas under the guise of nationalism. 他的讲话以民族主义为幌子宣扬种族主义思想。

19 aquatic   

adj.水生的，水栖的

参考例句：

• Aquatic sports include swimming and rowing.水上运动包括游泳和划船。
• We visited an aquatic city in Italy.我们在意大利访问过一个水上城市。

20 renounce   

v.放弃；拒绝承认，宣布与…断绝关系

参考例句：

• She decided to renounce the world and enter a convent.她决定弃绝尘世去当修女。
• It was painful for him to renounce his son.宣布与儿子脱离关系对他来说是很痛苦的。

21 scathing   

adj.（言词、文章）严厉的，尖刻的；不留情的adv.严厉地，尖刻地v.伤害，损害（尤指使之枯萎）( scathe的现在分词)

参考例句：

• a scathing attack on the new management 针对新的管理层的猛烈抨击
• Her speech was a scathing indictment of the government's record on crime. 她的演讲强烈指责了政府在犯罪问题上的表现。 来自《简明英汉词典》

22 narratives   

记叙文( narrative的名词复数 )； 故事； 叙述； 叙述部分

参考例句：

• Marriage, which has been the bourne of so many narratives, is still a great beginning. 结婚一向是许多小说的终点，然而也是一个伟大的开始。
• This is one of the narratives that children are fond of. 这是孩子们喜欢的故事之一。

23 indignity   

n.侮辱，伤害尊严，轻蔑

参考例句：

• For more than a year we have suffered the indignity.在一年多的时间里,我们丢尽了丑。
• She was subjected to indignity and humiliation.她受到侮辱和羞辱。

24 virtue   

n.德行，美德；贞操；优点；功效，效力

参考例句：

• He was considered to be a paragon of virtue.他被认为是品德尽善尽美的典范。
• You need to decorate your mind with virtue.你应该用德行美化心灵。

25 fascist   

adj.法西斯主义的；法西斯党的；n.法西斯主义者，法西斯分子

参考例句：

• The strikers were roughed up by the fascist cops.罢工工人遭到法西斯警察的殴打。
• They succeeded in overthrowing the fascist dictatorship.他们成功推翻了法西斯独裁统治。

26 emboldened   

v.鼓励，使有胆量( embolden的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• Emboldened by the wine, he went over to introduce himself to her. 他借酒壮胆，走上前去向她作自我介绍。
• His success emboldened him to expand his business. 他有了成就因而激发他进一步扩展业务。 来自《简明英汉词典》

27 chunk   

n.厚片，大块，相当大的部分（数量）

参考例句：

• They had to be careful of floating chunks of ice.他们必须当心大块浮冰。
• The company owns a chunk of farmland near Gatwick Airport.该公司拥有盖特威克机场周边的大片农田。