美国国家公共电台 NPR In 'Listen To The Marriage,' A Case For Spending Time In The Counselor's Office

 

ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:

John Jay Osborn is a screenwriter and novelist who has mined his own life for material. In 1970, he based the book "The Paper Chase" on his time in law school. His new novel is based on an experience he and his wife had together.

JOHN JAY OSBORN: More than 30 years ago, we went to the marriage counselor¹. And it was a life-changing experience. It made our life together so much better. And we went to her for four years. And at the end of four years, she said, you know, guys; I'm sorry, but this is it, you know? This isn't designed to go on for your whole marriage. You know, now you're going to have to go out on your own. And we were like, oh, God, no, you know?

SHAPIRO: (Laughter).

OSBORN: But she said, no, this is it - got to go.

SHAPIRO: His new novel is called "Listen To The Marriage." The reader only meets three people - a couple and their marriage counselor. In the author's note, John Jay Osborn writes that he hopes the book may change some marriages for the better.

OSBORN: I'd been wanting to write this novel for quite a long time, but I couldn't figure out how to do it. I just couldn't get it right. And then suddenly I had two realizations². And the first one was, it all takes place in the marriage counselor's office. That's what the story is. And the second was it's from the marriage counselor's point of view. And that was a big step for me for two reasons. You know, I've never been a marriage counselor. And number two, the marriage counselor had to be a woman.

SHAPIRO: Why?

OSBORN: I just - that - I've asked myself that. I mean, part of it was that my marriage counselor was a woman, and I believe most marriage counselors³ are women. And it just felt right. It just felt like it had to be that way.

SHAPIRO: How similar is the marriage counselor in this book to the one that you used?

OSBORN: So the marriage counselor in the book is different, but the themes of the marriage counselor, the techniques of the marriage counselor are very much the same.

SHAPIRO: Explain. What do you mean? What are those themes and techniques?

OSBORN: So for example, the marriage counselor says there are no deals, you know? You can't make any deals with each other. We're not going to do exchanges of promises. We're not going to say, OK, I'll do this, and you'll do that, and therefore our marriage is all going to work out. There's none of that. You know, to go to a marriage counselor who says that to you is really an interesting experience.

And then the second thing is if you want something from your partner, you've got to make them want to give it to you. So in the simplest situation, if you want your partner to love you, then you've got to become the kind of person that your partner is going to want to love, you know? Those are the kinds of insights⁵ - simple but I think critically important insights that my real marriage counselor and my fictional⁶ marriage counselor share.

SHAPIRO: Would you mind reading a section of the book for me?

OSBORN: No, sure.

SHAPIRO: Page 38.

OSBORN: (Reading) Usually Sandy didn't pay much attention to the world beyond her small office - the illicit⁷ meeting in New York where Gretchen was going for the weekend, what Bill's wife knew. Everything that happened outside the office - she didn't care. To Sandy, the important story was what happened inside her office. It was what she had to focus on. It was the story. It was what was really happening. Of course all the time, it was tempting⁸ to get caught up in the outside story - the affairs, the sex, the betrayals, the soap opera. But the real work was here inside her office.

SHAPIRO: That almost feels like a thesis⁹ statement for the book.

OSBORN: It is actually. And I put that in because I didn't quite trust the reader to get it, you know? Those two paragraphs are a marker for the reader saying, look, guys; this is where the real story is.

SHAPIRO: I know that's true of the novel. Is that really true in life? It's hard to imagine that betrayals and affairs cannot actually be what's important to whether a marriage lives or dies.

OSBORN: I have to say that in the long run, they don't matter. The stuff that happens outside the office doesn't matter. And I can tell you that by analogy¹⁰. So what happens in really good marriage counseling¹¹, the marriage counseling illustrated¹² in this book, is that by the end of the process, when you really begin to get it, when you can actually understand for the first time in your life what your partner is really saying to you, you feel like a new person. It's as if you've shed everything that happened before, right? I mean, so if you had an affair before, it's as if it happened to a different person. It doesn't count anymore. You're new. Does that make any sense?

SHAPIRO: It does, and it makes it sound like the marriage counseling is about much more than marriage. It's about real transformation¹³ of each individual.

OSBORN: It has to be. It absolutely has to be. And that's why it takes time - because it's - it is not some kind of blinding insight⁴ that you're going to have. Oh, God, this happened to me when I was 14; now I understand it; I'll be different. It's not about that at all. It's about learning lessons that you should have learned when you were growing up maybe by watching your parents. But your parents didn't have it together. They weren't - didn't have a great marriage. It's about learning these lessons of how you can relate to the other person, how you can understand what they're thinking.

And you have to practice. You have to practice it again and again. And that's what the couple does in this book. There are certain little things that the marriage counselor leads them through. For example, throughout the book, she'll stop, and she'll say, I want you to look at each other, and tell me what you see. And as you read the book, you'll see that they see more as they learn more until they really can see the other person in a deep and meaningful way.

SHAPIRO: I said that we only meet three characters in this book, which is not...

OSBORN: Yeah.

SHAPIRO: ...Exactly true because the way you write this book...

OSBORN: That's right.

SHAPIRO: ...There really is sort of a fourth character...

OSBORN: There is.

SHAPIRO: ...Which is the marriage itself.

OSBORN: It's the marriage itself. And the marriage counselor actually sees the marriage as a distinct¹⁴ and real character. She's actually listening to the marriage as the marriage changes in the office. And she's trying to get the couple to be able to do that as well, to see their marriage as something that they built over time that's very important and that's alive in a way that's different from each of them.

SHAPIRO: Marriage rates have been going down for decades. According to the Pew Research Center, today, just about half of adults are married down from about 75 percent in the '60s. Your book is clearly pro-marriage. Why do you think this institution still matters?

OSBORN: Wow, I mean, you're absolutely right. My book is pro-marriage. But it's not pro-marriage in any kind of transnational sense that we have to have marriage. It's pro-an-important-relationship because it makes your life so much better, you know? I mean, there's a reason that everybody wants to have a relationship. It's, like, the two of you individually are one thing. But if you can get it together, you literally¹⁵ become more than the two of you if you can create a important, fulfilling relationship together.

SHAPIRO: Do you think every marriage could benefit from a good marriage counselor, or is it really just sort of for people in crisis¹⁶, in dysfunction?

OSBORN: OK, I think that every marriage could benefit from a good marriage counselor, you know? You may not have to go for four years, but I think that you can really learn a lot. I don't think you should settle for a marriage that just, you know, is OK. I mean, it's the critical thing in your life. You want a marriage that's wonderful. You want a marriage that you can feel and talk to and that gives it back to you.

SHAPIRO: Well, John Jay Osborn, thank you so much for talking with us about your book.

OSBORN: Well, thank you so much. This was really fun.

SHAPIRO: His novel is called "Listen To The Marriage."

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MARRIAGE")

BOMBADIL: (Singing) What would you say of marriage after the 200th time I told the same joke and then I broke your favorite watch with my heel?

1 counselor   

n.顾问，法律顾问

参考例句：

• The counselor gave us some disinterested advice.顾问给了我们一些无私的忠告。
• Chinese commercial counselor's office in foreign countries.中国驻国外商务参赞处。

2 realizations   

认识，领会( realization的名词复数 )； 实现

参考例句：

• Popular realizations of MPI standard are CHIMP and LAM and so on. 目前，公用的MPI实现有CHIMP、lam等。
• The author presents some realizations from the certificate assurance work. 本文介绍了笔者在ISO9001质量体系认证工作中的几点体会。

3 counselors   

n.顾问( counselor的名词复数 )；律师；（使馆等的）参赞；（协助学生解决问题的）指导老师

参考例句：

• Counselors began an inquiry into industrial needs. 顾问们开始调查工业方面的需要。 来自《现代英汉综合大词典》
• We have experienced counselors available day and night. ) 这里有经验的法律顾问全天候值班。） 来自超越目标英语 第4册

4 insight   

n.洞察力，洞悉，深刻的见解

参考例句：

• Good teachers have insight into the problems of students.好的教师能洞察学生的问题。
• The research will provide direct insight into molecular mechanisms.这项研究将使人能够直接地了解分子的机理。

5 insights   

洞察力( insight的名词复数 )； 洞悉； 领悟； 顿悟

参考例句：

• This is a book full of profound, original and challenging insights. 这本书充满了深刻、新颖、令人深思的见解。
• Because his judgement was prudent, his insights were central to any consultation. 因为他考虑问题很慎重，所以他的意见在每次磋商时都最受重视。

6 fictional   

adj.小说的，虚构的

参考例句：

• The names of the shops are entirely fictional.那些商店的名字完全是虚构的。
• The two authors represent the opposite poles of fictional genius.这两位作者代表了天才小说家两个极端。

7 illicit   

adj.非法的，禁止的，不正当的

参考例句：

• He had an illicit association with Jane.他和简曾有过不正当关系。
• Seizures of illicit drugs have increased by 30% this year.今年违禁药品的扣押增长了30%。

8 tempting   

a.诱人的, 吸引人的

参考例句：

• It is tempting to idealize the past. 人都爱把过去的日子说得那么美好。
• It was a tempting offer. 这是个诱人的提议。

9 thesis   

n.论题，论点，论文

参考例句：

• His thesis is being finished off.他的论文快写完了。
• He argued his thesis well.他为他的论点进行了有力的辩论。

10 analogy   

n.类似，相似，类比，类推

参考例句：

• It is not always reliable to argue by analogy.靠类推法论证并不总是可靠的。
• A close analogy with the art of singing can be made.可以用歌唱艺术作类比。

11 counseling   

n.咨询服务

参考例句：

• A multimillionaire media magnate has shocked his employees with his candor by telling them all that he's putting his business affairs on hold to enter an alcoholism-counseling program. 一位身份数百万的媒体大亨，坦诚地告诉他全体员工他将暂时搁置他的事业以便参加戒酒班，令员工大为惊愕。
• She will need medical help and counseling to overcome the tragedy. 她将需要医疗帮助和心理咨询来平复这场悲剧。

12 illustrated   

adj. 有插图的，列举的 动词illustrate的过去式和过去分词

参考例句：

• His lecture was illustrated with slides taken during the expedition. 他在讲演中使用了探险时拍摄到的幻灯片。
• The manufacturing Methods: Will be illustrated in the next chapter. 制作方法将在下一章说明。

13 transformation   

n.变化；改造；转变

参考例句：

• Going to college brought about a dramatic transformation in her outlook.上大学使她的观念发生了巨大的变化。
• He was struggling to make the transformation from single man to responsible husband.他正在努力使自己由单身汉变为可靠的丈夫。

14 distinct   

adj.种类不同的，有区别的，清楚的，明显的

参考例句：

• I had the distinct impression that I was being followed.我清楚地感觉到有人跟踪我。
• The party split into two distinct groups.该党分裂成两个截然不同的团体。

15 literally   

adv.照字面意义，逐字地；确实

参考例句：

• He translated the passage literally.他逐字逐句地翻译这段文字。
• Sometimes she would not sit down till she was literally faint.有时候，她不走到真正要昏厥了，决不肯坐下来。

16 crisis   

n.危机，危急关头，决定性时刻，关键阶段

参考例句：

• He had proved that he could be relied on in a crisis.他已表明，在紧要关头他是可以信赖的。
• The topic today centers about the crisis in the Middle East.今天课题的中心是中东危机。