美国国家公共电台 NPR Schumer Says Trump Not Acting Like An Innocent Man, 'Dead Wrong' On Pardoning Himself

 

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

Senate Democratic Minority Leader Chuck Schumer wants to make sure he is heard when it comes to a nuclear deal. He and other top Democrats¹ sent a letter to President Trump² yesterday. It lays out five demands ahead of President Trump's summit with North Korea later this month, including, quote, verifiable and irreversible dismantlement⁴ of North Korea's nuclear program.

I spoke⁵ with Senator Schumer yesterday afternoon in his office in the U.S. Capitol. And I asked him whether he's concerned that the Trump administration will offer too many concessions⁶ without getting enough in return.

CHUCK SCHUMER: The worry we have is the president will be so eager for, quote, "an agreement" that it won't protect the security, first and foremost, of the United States. When you have North Korea with ICBM capability⁷ and nuclear capability, it's extremely dangerous. So having an agreement that doesn't dismantle³ that would be really troublesome. And secondarily, we've had allies that we've had since World War II in South Korea and Japan, in particular - Australia on the periphery⁸, Philippines. And we have to do things in accord with them and protect their security as well.

MARTIN: Why did you feel it important to write this letter? I mean, do you have any evidence that would suggest that the administration wouldn't also be concerned about those issues?

SCHUMER: The administration has been somewhat erratic⁹. They've moved rather precipitously without real guidelines in effect. And everyone knows that there are many times when Donald Trump likes the show of it as opposed to the substance of it. And the substance is vital here because our security is at stake. Now, we may be wrong on this. Maybe he's going to, you know, just demand the kinds of things that we've requested. That would be so much better, and we hope it happens. But we have to set out signals that that is a bottom line, not just gratuitous¹⁰.

MARTIN: How do you reinforce the bottom line? I mean, is this just talk at this point? What mechanism¹¹ do you have to make sure that...

SCHUMER: Well, first...

MARTIN: ...The administration does what you want them to do?

SCHUMER: Well, first, I think laying out five principles clearly does set some real parameters¹² that the American public will judge the president by. Second - obviously, if he comes to an agreement, one of the things that North Korea wants most is removal of sanctions. And in the past, when it comes to Russia and others, in a bipartisan way, when Congress has not agreed with what the president has done, we have taken away his ability to waive¹³ sanctions.

MARTIN: That's something that you could see happening again?

SCHUMER: It's very possible because a good number of our Republican colleagues probably - I don't think they'd send him a letter publicly because they're of the same party. But a good number of our Republican colleagues agree with every one of these principles and realize the danger to America if North Korea continues on the path it's continued.

MARTIN: But it has to be a give-and-take. In any negotiation¹⁴, North Korea is going to expect something.

SCHUMER: Well, what North Korea will expect is being welcomed into the community of nations, being able to trade economically and things like that. And those are fine incentives¹⁵. But they ought only to be granted when we achieve our goals, not ahead of time. In the past, North Korea has proved to be a very unreliable negotiating partner. They've promised things and backed off. They've lied. And we have to really be strong here because the danger is much greater than in previous negotiations¹⁶ because North Korea's nuclear capability is large. And for the first time, it seems quite clear that they have ICBMs.

MARTIN: Let me ask you - also in the letter, you urged the president to continue to take a, quote, "tough approach to China" to make sure that China's doing everything it can...

SCHUMER: Yes.

MARTIN: ...To make sure North Korea is complying with any potential deal. Are the Trump administration's new trade tariffs¹⁷ on China part of that? I mean do you...

SCHUMER: No.

MARTIN: ...Believe those tariffs are a good idea?

SCHUMER: One doesn't know. I have said repeatedly that my views on trade with China - not trade in the rest of the world but on trade with China - are closer to President Trump's than they were to President Obama or President Bush.

MARTIN: You like these sanctions?

SCHUMER: Well, it's unclear what he's doing. Take ZTE...

MARTIN: This is the Chinese telecom that Donald Trump propped¹⁸ up.

SCHUMER: ...The Chinese telecom - golden opportunity to show the Chinese we meant business. He talked tough and then backed off. So we don't know where it's going to end up with China because, again, sort of like with North Korea, the administration's, A, been erratic and, B, has different voices saying different things. You know, his secretary of Treasury¹⁹ seems to be different than Lighthizer and Navarro. So we have to wait and see. But if the president were tough on China, I think it would have two benefits - one, that would make China more, not less, inclined to help us on North Korea because that is the mother lode²⁰. That's what they care about.

But B - and maybe just as importantly - China has been stealing our intellectual property, our jobs, our wealth for 20 years. General Keith Alexander, hardly a hyperbolic man, a four-star general who was head of cybersecurity said - and this plagues me - there has been no greater transfer of wealth in the history of the world as has occurred in the last 20 years as Chinese companies have stolen the intellectual property of American companies. That can't be allowed to continue, or our economy will eventually sink.

MARTIN: So you like the focus at least - when you say you're closer to Donald Trump than you were to Barack Obama on this issue. You like the focus that this president is putting on China and trade.

SCHUMER: I don't think either previous president did much to show China they meant business. Trump has talked about it. He hasn't yet done it. But let's wait and see. When the president backed off on the sanctions again ZTE, which really damages our national security if they were to be allowed here, both parties reacted strongly. And it looks like Congress will overrule the president and not allow him to undo²¹ the sanctions.

MARTIN: Let me ask you about some news the president has made tweeting about what he has described as his absolute power to pardon himself, this coming in response to a letter that his lawyers sent to special counsel Robert Mueller.

SCHUMER: He said he had the absolute power to pardon himself. And then a few minutes later, he said that the special counsel is unconstitutional. He's 0-2 on the Constitution. We do not have a dictatorship. The Founding Fathers did not want a king. That means no one, including the president himself, is above the law. He's just dead wrong.

MARTIN: We should make it clear - the president says he's done nothing wrong but it is within his power, he argues, to pardon himself. His own lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, says that would be impeachable²². It would be politically untenable. If he were to pardon himself. Is that something that - would you move towards impeachment²³?

SCHUMER: Look, let's hope the president doesn't do that, plain and simple. We don't want to get to the point where there's a constitutional crisis. And we've been doing everything we can to urge the president to avoid it. But I'll say this - for someone who keeps loudly proclaiming his innocence²⁴, he sure doesn't act like it. If he did, then why would he want to talk about pardoning himself?

MARTIN: Are you worried that voters see you as the resistance, a party defined in its opposition²⁵ to President Trump?

SCHUMER: We work with the president when we can - trying to on China, trying to here on North Korea. When he's wrong, we oppose him. We have to be guided by our own internal gyroscope, plain and simple.

MARTIN: You've known Donald Trump a long time.

SCHUMER: Yes.

MARTIN: In the beginning, about a year ago, it seemed like you two were kind of getting along.

SCHUMER: You know, we still talk to each other.

MARTIN: Do you? How often would you say?

SCHUMER: And we've never - every so often. I can give you an exact moment. I talked to him a couple of weeks ago on trade. I called him. We talked for a half hour, encouraging him to be strong on China. He had his advisers²⁶ there.

MARTIN: How's your relationship? How would you characterize it now?

SCHUMER: Well, we are certainly adversaries²⁷. And I think he's doing damage to our democracy and damage to the middle class in this country. I don't think he's kept his promises. But I'll never cut off the line of communication.

MARTIN: Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, thank you for your time, sir.

SCHUMER: Thank you.

1 democrats   

n.民主主义者，民主人士( democrat的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The Democrats held a pep rally on Capitol Hill yesterday. 民主党昨天在国会山召开了竞选誓师大会。
• The democrats organize a filibuster in the senate. 民主党党员组织了阻挠议事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

2 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

3 dismantle   

vt.拆开，拆卸；废除，取消

参考例句：

• He asked for immediate help from the United States to dismantle the warheads.他请求美国立即提供援助，拆除这批弹头。
• The mower firmly refused to mow,so I decided to dismantle it.修完后割草机还是纹丝不动，于是，我决定把它拆开。

4 dismantlement   

拆卸，拆除的行动或状态

参考例句：

• All construction, dismantlement and reinstatement works shall be completed before May2006. 所有建造、卸及修复工程均须在二零零六年五月前完成。
• The law stipulates modes for company merger, dismantlement, bankruptcy, dissolution and liquidation. 该法规定了公司合并、分立、破产、解散和清算的方式。

5 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

6 concessions   

n.（尤指由政府或雇主给予的）特许权( concession的名词复数 )；承认；减价；（在某地的）特许经营权

参考例句：

• The firm will be forced to make concessions if it wants to avoid a strike. 要想避免罢工，公司将不得不作出一些让步。
• The concessions did little to placate the students. 让步根本未能平息学生的愤怒。

7 capability   

n.能力；才能；(pl)可发展的能力或特性等

参考例句：

• She has the capability to become a very fine actress.她有潜力成为杰出演员。
• Organizing a whole department is beyond his capability.组织整个部门是他能力以外的事。

8 periphery   

n.(圆体的)外面；周围

参考例句：

• Geographically, the UK is on the periphery of Europe.从地理位置上讲，英国处于欧洲边缘。
• The periphery of the retina is very sensitive to motion.视网膜的外围对运动非常敏感。

9 erratic   

adj.古怪的，反复无常的，不稳定的

参考例句：

• The old man had always been cranky and erratic.那老头儿性情古怪,反复无常。
• The erratic fluctuation of market prices is in consequence of unstable economy.经济波动致使市场物价忽起忽落。

10 gratuitous   

adj.无偿的，免费的；无缘无故的，不必要的

参考例句：

• His criticism is quite gratuitous.他的批评完全没有根据。
• There's too much crime and gratuitous violence on TV.电视里充斥着犯罪和无端的暴力。

11 mechanism   

n.机械装置；机构，结构

参考例句：

• The bones and muscles are parts of the mechanism of the body.骨骼和肌肉是人体的组成部件。
• The mechanism of the machine is very complicated.这台机器的结构是非常复杂的。

12 parameters   

因素，特征； 界限； （限定性的）因素( parameter的名词复数 )； 参量； 参项； 决定因素

参考例句：

• We have to work within the parameters of time. 我们的工作受时间所限。
• See parameters.cpp for a compilable example. This is part of the Spirit distribution. 可编译例子见parameters.cpp.这是Spirit分发包的组成部分。

13 waive   

vt.放弃，不坚持(规定、要求、权力等)

参考例句：

• I'll record to our habitat office waive our claim immediately.我立即写信给咱们的总公司提出放弃索赔。
• In view of the unusual circumstances,they agree to waive their requirement.鉴于特殊情况，他们同意放弃他们的要求。

14 negotiation   

n.谈判，协商

参考例句：

• They closed the deal in sugar after a week of negotiation.经过一星期的谈判，他们的食糖生意成交了。
• The negotiation dragged on until July.谈判一直拖到7月份。

15 incentives   

激励某人做某事的事物( incentive的名词复数 )； 刺激； 诱因； 动机

参考例句：

• tax incentives to encourage savings 鼓励储蓄的税收措施
• Furthermore, subsidies provide incentives only for investments in equipment. 更有甚者，提供津贴仅是为鼓励增添设备的投资。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法

16 negotiations   

协商( negotiation的名词复数 )； 谈判； 完成（难事）； 通过

参考例句：

• negotiations for a durable peace 为持久和平而进行的谈判
• Negotiations have failed to establish any middle ground. 谈判未能达成任何妥协。

17 tariffs   

关税制度； 关税( tariff的名词复数 )； 关税表； （旅馆或饭店等的）收费表； 量刑标准

参考例句：

• British industry was sheltered from foreign competition by protective tariffs. 保护性关税使英国工业免受国际竞争影响。
• The new tariffs have put a stranglehold on trade. 新的关税制对开展贸易极为不利。

18 propped   

支撑，支持，维持( prop的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• He sat propped up in the bed by pillows. 他靠着枕头坐在床上。
• This fence should be propped up. 这栅栏该用东西支一支。

19 treasury   

n.宝库；国库，金库；文库

参考例句：

• The Treasury was opposed in principle to the proposals.财政部原则上反对这些提案。
• This book is a treasury of useful information.这本书是有价值的信息宝库。

20 lode   

n.矿脉

参考例句：

• We discovered the rich lode bellied out.我们发现丰富的矿脉突然增大了。
• A lode of gold was discovered。他们发现了一处黄金矿藏。

21 undo   

vt.解开，松开；取消，撤销

参考例句：

• His pride will undo him some day.他的傲慢总有一天会毁了他。
• I managed secretly to undo a corner of the parcel.我悄悄地设法解开了包裹的一角。

22 impeachable   

adj.可控告的，可弹劾的

参考例句：

• Thus, Congress cannot remove an executive official except for impeachable offenses. 因此，除非有可弹劾的行为，否则国会不能罢免行政官员。 来自英汉非文学 - 行政法
• The government officer committed an impeachable offence. 那位政府官员犯了可能招致弹劾的罪行。 来自辞典例句

23 impeachment   

n.弹劾；控告；怀疑

参考例句：

• Impeachment is considered a drastic measure in the United States.在美国，弹劾被视为一种非常激烈的措施。
• The verdict resulting from his impeachment destroyed his political career.他遭弹劾后得到的判决毁了他的政治生涯。

24 innocence   

n.无罪；天真；无害

参考例句：

• There was a touching air of innocence about the boy.这个男孩有一种令人感动的天真神情。
• The accused man proved his innocence of the crime.被告人经证实无罪。

25 opposition   

n.反对，敌对

参考例句：

• The party leader is facing opposition in his own backyard.该党领袖在自己的党內遇到了反对。
• The police tried to break down the prisoner's opposition.警察设法制住了那个囚犯的反抗。

26 advisers   

顾问，劝告者( adviser的名词复数 )； （指导大学新生学科问题等的）指导教授

参考例句：

• a member of the President's favoured circle of advisers 总统宠爱的顾问班子中的一员
• She withdrew to confer with her advisers before announcing a decision. 她先去请教顾问然后再宣布决定。

27 adversaries   

n.对手，敌手( adversary的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• That would cause potential adversaries to recoil from a challenge. 这会迫使潜在的敌人在挑战面前退缩。 来自辞典例句
• Every adversaries are more comfortable with a predictable, coherent America. 就连敌人也会因有可以预料的，始终一致的美国而感到舒服得多。 来自辞典例句