美国国家公共电台 NPR Former U.S. Ambassador To Mexico Calls Trump's Immigration Policies 'Un-American'

 

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST:

Attorney General Jeff Sessions cited a biblical passage, Romans 13, to defend the administration's zero tolerance¹ immigration policy. He said on Thursday that it was wise to, quote, "obey the laws of the government because God has ordained² them for the purpose of order." In recent weeks, the administration has decided³ to prosecute⁴ anyone crossing the southwest border illegally, even those seeking asylum⁵, to separate children from parents and to narrow the definition of what qualifies for an asylum claim. We'll be talking more about immigration throughout the show. But now Roberta Jacobson is the former U.S. ambassador to Mexico. And in her first interview since resigning her post last month, I asked her for her view of the administration's actions.

ROBERTA JACOBSON: I have a great deal of difficulty with these policies. And it's among many reasons that I ended my tenure⁶ in Mexico. I think unless we can help attack the reasons that they're coming, no amount of draconian⁷ and frankly⁸ un-American policies, as I believe these are, is really going to make a permanent difference. But it may affect our own standing⁹ in the world and certainly in the region. When I was in Mexico, I watched over 30 percent drop in the U.S. approval rating. That matters over time for politicians who want to work with us. So I think these policies are both wrong but also counterproductive.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I want to talk about why you left the State Department.

JACOBSON: Well, I think that part of the impetus¹⁰ was the increasing difficulty I had in trying to defend some of these policies and in trying to work with a Mexican government that was quite keen to work with us, only to see that sort of blown up periodically by tweets or rallies about the wall or about, you know, characterizing Mexicans, which was not what I experienced.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: One of the things that has been noted¹¹ is that you were sidelined when Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law, came down, that you were not in the meetings that he took. Was that problematic for you? I mean, does that hurt your standing as ambassador?

JACOBSON: Well, it's always problematic for an ambassador to be left out of meetings like that. You know, it gives me no great joy to admit that. But it's absolutely true. When we're dealing¹² with something that's big, whether it's the extradition¹³ of Chapo Guzman or other cartel figures or the renegotiation of NAFTA, they're large enough that you need a full team. And, you know, our embassy and consulates¹⁴ in Mexico are among the largest U.S. presence in the world. So we had a capability¹⁵ to understand Mexico from a million different angles and to provide that guidance to Washington and then to convey, you know, what we needed to to advance our agenda. But it just wasn't being used. And that's the problem - is that this is a relationship that, over time, has gotten very deep with Mexico and very broad. And when you narrow it the way the administration has, you simply don't get as much done.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Isn't there always a push and pull, though, between the White House and the State Department? I mean, isn't that just a regular occurrence all over the world with every different administration?

JACOBSON: Well, I think - you know, I think there's always a push and pull between the White House and the State Department. But this was a little bit different because I certainly had not seen situations in which State - because it was being so very gutted¹⁶ and because we didn't have many senior officials - was getting left out of so much that was being attempted.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Have you seen a shift within the State Department since Mike Pompeo has come onboard? Obviously, Rex Tillerson oversaw¹⁷ a reduction of staff. We saw 60 percent of high-level, career State Department diplomats¹⁸ leave the service, you among them. Has that trend reversed itself under Mike Pompeo?

JACOBSON: There are very encouraging signs in terms of Secretary Pompeo's attention to management issues, lifting hiring freezes, trying to move forward. Those are relatively¹⁹ narrow in scope of what he's trying to do right now. And I think in terms of policy changes, it's impossible to tell whether those will make a difference in terms of either retention²⁰ of people or attraction of new people, et cetera. So my view right now is, you know, sort of we'll see. But it is always better for the State Department to have in place a secretary who has the president's ear and has a good relationship with him. So in that respect, I think most State Department officials are pleased. But it's early days yet.

(SOUNDBITE OF II:LO'S "JADE")

GARCIA-NAVARRO: That was Roberta Jacobson, the former U.S. ambassador to Mexico. We'll be taking WEEKEND EDITION to Mexico this coming week, where we'll get the view from our neighbor to the south ahead of their pivotal elections. That's a week from today.

(SOUNDBITE OF II:LO'S "JADE")

1 tolerance   

n.宽容；容忍，忍受；耐药力；公差

参考例句：

• Tolerance is one of his strengths.宽容是他的一个优点。
• Human beings have limited tolerance of noise.人类对噪音的忍耐力有限。

2 ordained   

v.任命（某人）为牧师( ordain的过去式和过去分词 )；授予（某人）圣职；（上帝、法律等）命令；判定

参考例句：

• He was ordained in 1984. 他在一九八四年被任命为牧师。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• He was ordained priest. 他被任命为牧师。 来自辞典例句

3 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

4 prosecute   

vt.告发；进行；vi.告发，起诉，作检察官

参考例句：

• I am trying my best to prosecute my duties.我正在尽力履行我的职责。
• Is there enough evidence to prosecute?有没有起诉的足够证据？

5 asylum   

n.避难所，庇护所，避难

参考例句：

• The people ask for political asylum.人们请求政治避难。
• Having sought asylum in the West for many years,they were eventually granted it.他们最终获得了在西方寻求多年的避难权。

6 tenure   

n.终身职位；任期；(土地)保有权，保有期

参考例句：

• He remained popular throughout his tenure of the office of mayor.他在担任市长的整个任期内都深得民心。
• Land tenure is a leading political issue in many parts of the world.土地的保有权在世界很多地区是主要的政治问题。

7 draconian   

adj.严苛的；苛刻的；严酷的；龙一样的

参考例句：

• You can't expect the people to obey such draconian regulations.你不能指望人民服从如此严苛的规定。
• The city needs a draconian way of dealing with robbers.这个城市需要一个严苛的办法来对付强盗。

8 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

9 standing   

n.持续，地位；adj.永久的，不动的，直立的，不流动的

参考例句：

• After the earthquake only a few houses were left standing.地震过后只有几幢房屋还立着。
• They're standing out against any change in the law.他们坚决反对对法律做任何修改。

10 impetus   

n.推动，促进，刺激；推动力

参考例句：

• This is the primary impetus behind the economic recovery.这是促使经济复苏的主要动力。
• Her speech gave an impetus to my ideas.她的讲话激发了我的思绪。

11 noted   

adj.著名的，知名的

参考例句：

• The local hotel is noted for its good table.当地的那家酒店以餐食精美而著称。
• Jim is noted for arriving late for work.吉姆上班迟到出了名。

12 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。

13 extradition   

n.引渡（逃犯）

参考例句：

• The smuggler is in prison tonight,awaiting extradition to Britain.这名走私犯今晚在监狱，等待引渡到英国。
• He began to trouble concerning the extradition laws.他开始费尽心思地去想关于引渡法的问题。

14 consulates   

n.领事馆( consulate的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Consulates General of The People's Republic at Los Angeles. 中华人民共和国驻洛杉矶总领事馆。 来自互联网
• The country's embassies, consulates and other diplomatic missions stationed in other countries. （七）家驻外使馆、馆和其他外交代表机构。 来自互联网

15 capability   

n.能力；才能；(pl)可发展的能力或特性等

参考例句：

• She has the capability to become a very fine actress.她有潜力成为杰出演员。
• Organizing a whole department is beyond his capability.组织整个部门是他能力以外的事。

16 gutted   

adj.容易消化的v.毁坏（建筑物等）的内部( gut的过去式和过去分词 )；取出…的内脏

参考例句：

• Disappointed? I was gutted! 失望？我是伤心透了！
• The invaders gutted the historic building. 侵略者们将那幢历史上有名的建筑洗劫一空。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》

17 oversaw   

v.监督，监视( oversee的过去式 )

参考例句：

• He will go down as the president who oversaw two historic transitions. 他将作为见证了巴西两次历史性转变的总统，安然引退。 来自互联网
• Dixon oversaw the project as creative director of Design Research Studio. 狄克逊监督项目的创意总监设计研究工作室。 来自互联网

18 diplomats   

n.外交官( diplomat的名词复数 )；有手腕的人，善于交际的人

参考例句：

• These events led to the expulsion of senior diplomats from the country. 这些事件导致一些高级外交官被驱逐出境。
• The court has no jurisdiction over foreign diplomats living in this country. 法院对驻本国的外交官无裁判权。 来自《简明英汉词典》

19 relatively   

adv.比较...地，相对地

参考例句：

• The rabbit is a relatively recent introduction in Australia.兔子是相对较新引入澳大利亚的物种。
• The operation was relatively painless.手术相对来说不痛。

20 retention   

n.保留，保持，保持力，记忆力

参考例句：

• They advocate the retention of our nuclear power plants.他们主张保留我们的核电厂。
• His retention of energy at this hour is really surprising.人们惊叹他在这个时候还能保持如此旺盛的精力。