美国国家公共电台 NPR Michael Cohen's Lawyer Says His Client Would Never Accept Pardon From 'Corrupt' Trump

 

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

For more on Michael Cohen's guilty plea, we are joined now by his attorney, Mr. Lanny Davis.

Thanks so much for being with us this morning.

LANNY DAVIS: Thank you for having me - very important 24 hours we just experienced as a country.

MARTIN: Indeed. So I'm going to start off with a basic question but an important one. Why did your client, Michael Cohen, decide to plead guilty to these eight charges?

DAVIS: Well, that's a long pause because I know the pain he and his family and his children have gone through leading up to the moment where he decided² to do this. I think he recognized that he needed to step up to the line and take responsibility in order to - I'll use the phrase turn a corner and tell the truth from this point on about Donald Trump³ and his many years of working for Donald Trump, his concern about America having Donald Trump as president and his decision to turn a corner and tell the truth.

MARTIN: So does that mean he was not telling the truth before?

DAVIS: It means he could not speak under the shadow of a criminal investigation⁴. I'm not allowed to criticize the outcome. He made the decision to plead guilty. And I have to respect the court and the prosecution⁵, and that's done. But he made a difficult decision for his family, that he needed to do this in order to begin a new life. And the new life starts by telling the truth.

MARTIN: The president's lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, has called your client a liar⁶, saying that tapes of conversations between Michael Cohen and Donald Trump that were given to investigators⁷, quote, "completely demonstrate the president did nothing wrong." What evidence does your client have to prove that Donald Trump directed him to make these illegal payments to influence the election?

DAVIS: Let's quote Rudy Giuliani saying on the record that Donald Trump directed Michael Cohen to make these payments that are illegal payments because they had the principal purpose of affecting an election. Rudy Giuliani publicly contradicted the president of the United States, who lied on Air Force One, saying, I don't know a thing about Stormy Daniels. And then Rudy Giuliani contradicted him by saying, no, he paid that money to Michael Cohen.

MARTIN: What about the broader allegation that Cohen is unreliable, that he is a liar, he's someone who can't be trusted? I mean, Cohen has just pled guilty to multiple counts of tax and bank fraud. Is he credible⁸?

DAVIS: There's no question it's legitimate⁹ to ask that question about the other counts that he pled guilty to. But note Mr. Giuliani and Mr. Trump will try to change the subject and raise his credibility about other issues that he pled guilty to. But let me repeat, on the campaign finance violation¹⁰, a crime committed by the president of the United States, his own lawyers are the witnesses against him.

So yes, they can raise credibility questions about the other issues. But on the issue of violating campaign finance laws, which is part of the corruption¹¹ of our democracy, Donald Trump is guilty of a crime. And the president of the United States being guilty of a crime is far beyond what has been classically called impeachable¹³ offenses¹⁴.

MARTIN: Your client faces up to five years in prison. Is he going to provide information to the Mueller investigation in exchange for even more lenient¹⁵ sentencing?

DAVIS: Not that I'm aware of. And I can't comment about Mr. Mueller and what he would say to Mr. Mueller.

MARTIN: Although you have said that he would have interesting things to share that Mr. Mueller would find of use.

DAVIS: Of interest. I picked my words very carefully. I have information from my client that I can't discuss and violate what's called attorney-client privilege. But I can say that I know that Michael Cohen decided to tell the truth, and that's the new life that he's now dedicated¹⁶ to. And when he tells the truth, if he tells the truth to the special counsel who talks to him - and I believe he will - he will have topics that, in my opinion, will be of interest to the special counsel in his Russian investigation and related topics.

MARTIN: You asked this question after the guilty plea was made. If those payments were a crime for Michael Cohen, then why wouldn't they be a crime for Donald Trump? Is that your ultimate goal, to see that President Trump is charged?

DAVIS: My ultimate goal - the president of the United States is a criminal. He has not pled guilty to a crime, but his own lawyers have described him directing somebody to do something that is a criminal act, which is to hush¹⁷ up his affairs with two women. And that's not what this is about. It's about his hushing up those affairs in order to influence the outcome of an election, part of the corruption of the election of 2016, which included - established, 100 percent certain - Putin interference to help Trump get elected by the unanimous judgment¹⁸ of the intelligence community.

Only Donald Trump denies that. Only - there's nobody else that has - not - no member of his own party, no member of his own intelligence community who he appointed, his director of national intelligence. All say the Russians corrupted¹⁹ our election to help Trump. Only Trump says it's a witch hunt. And so the answer to your question is, he is a criminal by the words of his own attorneys in directing somebody else to do the act. And why didn't he sign the check to Stormy Daniels? - because he didn't want people to know about his role. So he not only directed a crime, he's part of a cover-up.

MARTIN: What conversations, if any, has your client had with the president or his legal team or have you had on his behalf about a presidential pardon?

DAVIS: I don't know. I know that Mr. Cohen would never accept a pardon from a man that he considers to be both corrupt¹² and a dangerous person in the Oval Office. And he has flatly authorized²⁰ me to say, under no circumstances would he accept a pardon from Mr. Trump, who uses the pardon power in a way that no president in American history has ever used a pardon, to relieve people of guilt¹ who committed crimes, who are political cronies of his, like the sheriff in Arizona who defied a court order, was clearly guilty and was given a pardon. Mr. Cohen is not interested in being dirtied by a pardon from such a man.

MARTIN: Lanny Davis is the attorney for Michael Cohen.

Thank you so much for your time this morning.

DAVIS: You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

(SOUNDBITE OF RECONDITE'S "LEVO")

1 guilt   

n.犯罪；内疚；过失，罪责

参考例句：

• She tried to cover up her guilt by lying.她企图用谎言掩饰自己的罪行。
• Don't lay a guilt trip on your child about schoolwork.别因为功课责备孩子而使他觉得很内疚。

2 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

3 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

4 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

5 prosecution   

n.起诉，告发，检举，执行，经营

参考例句：

• The Smiths brought a prosecution against the organizers.史密斯家对组织者们提出起诉。
• He attempts to rebut the assertion made by the prosecution witness.他试图反驳原告方证人所作的断言。

6 liar   

n.说谎的人

参考例句：

• I know you for a thief and a liar!我算认识你了，一个又偷又骗的家伙！
• She was wrongly labelled a liar.她被错误地扣上说谎者的帽子。

7 investigators   

n.调查者，审查者( investigator的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• This memo could be the smoking gun that investigators have been looking for. 这份备忘录可能是调查人员一直在寻找的证据。
• The team consisted of six investigators and two secretaries. 这个团队由六个调查人员和两个秘书组成。 来自《简明英汉词典》

8 credible   

adj.可信任的，可靠的

参考例句：

• The news report is hardly credible.这则新闻报道令人难以置信。
• Is there a credible alternative to the nuclear deterrent?是否有可以取代核威慑力量的可靠办法？

9 legitimate   

adj.合法的，合理的，合乎逻辑的；v.使合法

参考例句：

• Sickness is a legitimate reason for asking for leave.生病是请假的一个正当的理由。
• That's a perfectly legitimate fear.怀有这种恐惧完全在情理之中。

10 violation   

n.违反(行为)，违背(行为)，侵犯

参考例句：

• He roared that was a violation of the rules.他大声说，那是违反规则的。
• He was fined 200 dollars for violation of traffic regulation.他因违反交通规则被罚款200美元。

11 corruption   

n.腐败，堕落，贪污

参考例句：

• The people asked the government to hit out against corruption and theft.人民要求政府严惩贪污盗窃。
• The old man reviled against corruption.那老人痛斥了贪污舞弊。

12 corrupt   

v.贿赂，收买；adj.腐败的，贪污的

参考例句：

• The newspaper alleged the mayor's corrupt practices.那家报纸断言市长有舞弊行为。
• This judge is corrupt.这个法官贪污。

13 impeachable   

adj.可控告的，可弹劾的

参考例句：

• Thus, Congress cannot remove an executive official except for impeachable offenses. 因此，除非有可弹劾的行为，否则国会不能罢免行政官员。 来自英汉非文学 - 行政法
• The government officer committed an impeachable offence. 那位政府官员犯了可能招致弹劾的罪行。 来自辞典例句

14 offenses   

n.进攻( offense的名词复数 )；（球队的）前锋；进攻方法；攻势

参考例句：

• It's wrong of you to take the child to task for such trifling offenses. 因这类小毛病责备那孩子是你的不对。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Thus, Congress cannot remove an executive official except for impeachable offenses. 因此，除非有可弹劾的行为，否则国会不能罢免行政官员。 来自英汉非文学 - 行政法

15 lenient   

adj.宽大的，仁慈的

参考例句：

• The judge was lenient with him.法官对他很宽大。
• It's a question of finding the means between too lenient treatment and too severe punishment.问题是要找出处理过宽和处罚过严的折中办法。

16 dedicated   

adj.一心一意的；献身的；热诚的

参考例句：

• He dedicated his life to the cause of education.他献身于教育事业。
• His whole energies are dedicated to improve the design.他的全部精力都放在改进这项设计上了。

17 hush   

int.嘘，别出声；n.沉默，静寂；v.使安静

参考例句：

• A hush fell over the onlookers.旁观者们突然静了下来。
• Do hush up the scandal!不要把这丑事声张出去！

18 judgment   

n.审判；判断力，识别力，看法，意见

参考例句：

• The chairman flatters himself on his judgment of people.主席自认为他审视人比别人高明。
• He's a man of excellent judgment.他眼力过人。

19 corrupted   

（使）败坏( corrupt的过去式和过去分词 )； （使）腐化； 引起（计算机文件等的）错误； 破坏

参考例句：

• The body corrupted quite quickly. 尸体很快腐烂了。
• The text was corrupted by careless copyists. 原文因抄写员粗心而有讹误。

20 authorized   

a.委任的，许可的

参考例句：

• An administrative order is valid if authorized by a statute.如果一个行政命令得到一个法规的认可那么这个命令就是有效的。