美国国家公共电台 NPR House Intel Chairman Schiff Vows To Get Trump Jr. Phone Records — And More

 

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

Congressman¹ Adam Schiff has a question. The California Democrat² is on the House Intelligence Committee. It examined links between President Trump³'s campaign and Russia. In 2016, Schiff says Donald Trump Jr. met a Russian lawyer and spoke⁴ on the phone with someone using a blocked number.

ADAM SCHIFF: The obvious question was, was this call from Dad? And the response from the Republicans was, no, we don't want to know.

INSKEEP: Republican Devin Nunes controlled the committee. But that was then; this is now. Schiff now chairs the committee, and he does want to know.

SCHIFF: We do have the ability to find out. And we will find out.

INSKEEP: Democrats⁵ now have subpoena⁶ power - one of the more significant changes brought by last year's election. We met Chairman Schiff in his Capitol office, which is decorated by black and white photos of past presidents. In past generations, his committee operated quietly, overseeing U.S. intelligence agencies. Schiff sees a more public role, including a deeper look at Russia.

SCHIFF: So we're already reaching out to witnesses that we wanted to come in, but we couldn't get the then-majority to either request or subpoena. We're going to get documents that we need to get to do our investigative work.

INSKEEP: Why would you begin the Russia investigation⁷ again, granting you didn't like the way that Devin Nunes did it or that his colleagues did it? There's been a Senate investigation that was seen as credible⁸ and bipartisan. There's the Mueller investigation. What could you add?

SCHIFF: Well, first of all, we never shut down the Russia investigation. The Republicans walked away from it, but we continued to bring in witnesses. But we didn't have the power to subpoena them or compel their testimony⁹, and that didn't allow us to do a thorough job.

And we see in the testimony of Bill Barr just how important it is that the congressional investigations¹⁰ go on. Barr testified that he is not committing to sharing the Mueller report with the Congress or the country.

INSKEEP: This is the attorney general nominee¹¹, right?

SCHIFF: Exactly. And we can expect he's going to give us a Cliffs Notes version that he will write himself. This means that the country may never learn about information that does not go into an indictment¹³. And that just is completely unsatisfactory. The country deserves to know what the Russians did in our elections, what role the president played or his campaign associates played.

And to have a situation where the nominee for attorney general says, you can't indict¹² a sitting president; you can only impeach¹⁴ one if it's warranted, but we're not going to give you the evidence to determine whether impeachment¹⁵ is in order means we're not going to have a rule of law. We're going to have immunity¹⁶, and that just cannot persist.

INSKEEP: You think it is worth, then, going over the very same ground Mueller has gone over, perhaps, because you can do it in a way that you would develop public information?

SCHIFF: I think there are areas that Mueller may not be investigating that need to be investigated because he may or may not be given the charter by the deputy attorney general or acting¹⁷ attorney general.

INSKEEP: What's an example?

SCHIFF: Money laundering¹⁸ - were the Russians laundering money through the Trump businesses? Does this compromise the Russians' hold over the president of the United States? We don't know the answer to that question, but we also don't know whether Bob Mueller has been allowed to investigate that issue. The president has tried to draw a red line around it. In my view, the president has no business drawing red lines. But nonetheless, we don't know whether that has been investigated, but we do know it needs to be.

INSKEEP: Is that why you are hiring, among other staff members, a former prosecutor¹⁹ and an expert in money laundering?

SCHIFF: We are adding to the investigative capabilities²⁰ of our committee in our staffing. And so we are interviewing candidates with an eye towards doing that.

INSKEEP: And what I said is correct - money laundering expert will be on that staff? Former prosecutor will be on that staff?

SCHIFF: You know, I - we are going to be hiring people with investigative experience.

INSKEEP: If you are going into all the president's finances, and perhaps an extensive look at his business career, at what point would that become a witch hunt?

SCHIFF: Well, we're certainly not going to go into all the president's finances. You know, whether the president was engaged in shady business transactions with people - that's not my job to find out. It is my job to find out whether a foreign power holds leverage²¹ over the president.

Even when Donald Trump was the presumptive Republican nominee for president and was denying any business dealings with Russia, he was, in fact, pursuing a multi-multimillion-dollar project in Moscow and seeking the Kremlin's help to make it happen. Now, the Russians knew this even as the President was denying it because the Russians were on the other end of that transaction, which means that at any point in time of the Russians' choosing, they could expose the president's falsehoods about this. And that is compromise.

Now, it's come to the public's attention recently that the president may have tried to acquire or destroy the records of his private conversations with Putin over the last couple years. Why is that? Why does he demand to meet alone with Putin? Why does he demand that there be no record of his discussions with Putin? This is extraordinarily²² worrying behavior by the president of the United States.

INSKEEP: Last year, when you did not have the power - you had to ask Republicans - you called for the interpreter from the president's private meeting with Putin in Helsinki, Finland, to be subpoenaed²³ to testify. Now that you do have the power, do you intend to subpoena that interpreter?

SCHIFF: We intend to do everything we can to find out what took place in these private meetings. And we are examining the legal issues around either bringing in the interpreter or getting the interpreter's notes or finding out through others in the administration what took place.

INSKEEP: What are the legal issues?

SCHIFF: Well, they may make a superficial claim of executive privilege. That privilege applies when the president is talking to his advisers²⁴, seeking their counsel. And the policy reason behind it is that he should be able to get the unfettered advice of his counselors²⁵ to make decisions. But we're not interested in what he was talking to his counselors about. We're interested in what he was talking to Vladimir Putin about. And it doesn't seem to me that any privilege applies there. But that doesn't mean they won't claim one.

And so we are investigating the legal issues around it. At the end of the day, though, we need to find out whether the president, behind closed doors, is sacrificing U.S. interests because of some personal motivation. That, to me, is the overriding²⁶ and compelling interest here.

INSKEEP: If the White House disagrees with you about executive privilege on a matter like the president's interpreter, are you prepared to go to court?

SCHIFF: Well, this is a decision that we will have to make in discussion with our leadership. And I'm already coordinating²⁷ with Eliot Engel, the chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, because what we are going to have to do as an overarching matter is prioritize what fights we're going to have with this administration. We know they're going to stonewall us on whatever legitimate²⁸ oversight²⁹ we do, and it means we're going to have to put our most important fights first and make sure that we are prepared for them.

INSKEEP: Mr. Chairman, thanks for the time.

SCHIFF: It's my pleasure. Thank you.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

INSKEEP: Adam Schiff is the new chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

By the way, a defender³⁰ of the president is revising a key talking point. President Trump often says there was no collusion with Russia. Now his lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, has narrowed that claim. Giuliani told CNN, quote, "I never said there was no collusion between the campaign or between people in the campaign." He says the denial applies only to the president personally.

1 Congressman   

n.（美）国会议员

参考例句：

• He related several anecdotes about his first years as a congressman.他讲述自己初任议员那几年的几则轶事。
• The congressman is meditating a reply to his critics.这位国会议员正在考虑给他的批评者一个答复。

2 democrat   

n.民主主义者，民主人士；民主党党员

参考例句：

• The Democrat and the Public criticized each other.民主党人和共和党人互相攻击。
• About two years later,he was defeated by Democrat Jimmy Carter.大约两年后，他被民主党人杰米卡特击败。

3 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

4 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

5 democrats   

n.民主主义者，民主人士( democrat的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The Democrats held a pep rally on Capitol Hill yesterday. 民主党昨天在国会山召开了竞选誓师大会。
• The democrats organize a filibuster in the senate. 民主党党员组织了阻挠议事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

6 subpoena   

n.（法律）传票；v.传讯

参考例句：

• He was brought up to court with a subpoena.他接到传讯，来到法庭上。
• Select committees have the power to subpoena witnesses.特别委员会有权传唤证人。

7 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

8 credible   

adj.可信任的，可靠的

参考例句：

• The news report is hardly credible.这则新闻报道令人难以置信。
• Is there a credible alternative to the nuclear deterrent?是否有可以取代核威慑力量的可靠办法？

9 testimony   

n.证词；见证，证明

参考例句：

• The testimony given by him is dubious.他所作的证据是可疑的。
• He was called in to bear testimony to what the police officer said.他被传入为警官所说的话作证。

10 investigations   

（正式的）调查( investigation的名词复数 )； 侦查； 科学研究； 学术研究

参考例句：

• His investigations were intensive and thorough but revealed nothing. 他进行了深入彻底的调查，但没有发现什么。
• He often sent them out to make investigations. 他常常派他们出去作调查。

11 nominee   

n.被提名者；被任命者；被推荐者

参考例句：

• His nominee for vice president was elected only after a second ballot.他提名的副总统在两轮投票后才当选。
• Mr.Francisco is standing as the official nominee for the post of District Secretary.弗朗西斯科先生是行政书记职位的正式提名人。

12 indict   

v.起诉，控告，指控

参考例句：

• You can't indict whole people for the crudeness of a few.您不能因少数人的粗暴行为就控诉整个民族。
• I can indict you for abducting high school student.我可以告你诱拐中学生。

13 indictment   

n.起诉；诉状

参考例句：

• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。
• They issued an indictment against them.他们起诉了他们。

14 impeach   

v.弹劾；检举

参考例句：

• We must impeach the judge for taking bribes.我们一定要检举法官收受贿赂。
• The committee decided to impeach the President.委员会决定弹劾总统。

15 impeachment   

n.弹劾；控告；怀疑

参考例句：

• Impeachment is considered a drastic measure in the United States.在美国，弹劾被视为一种非常激烈的措施。
• The verdict resulting from his impeachment destroyed his political career.他遭弹劾后得到的判决毁了他的政治生涯。

16 immunity   

n.优惠；免除；豁免，豁免权

参考例句：

• The law gives public schools immunity from taxation.法律免除公立学校的纳税义务。
• He claims diplomatic immunity to avoid being arrested.他要求外交豁免以便避免被捕。

17 acting   

n.演戏，行为，假装；adj.代理的，临时的，演出用的

参考例句：

• Ignore her,she's just acting.别理她，她只是假装的。
• During the seventies,her acting career was in eclipse.在七十年代，她的表演生涯黯然失色。

18 laundering   

n.洗涤（衣等），洗烫（衣等）；洗（钱）v.洗（衣服等），洗烫（衣服等）( launder的现在分词 )；洗（黑钱）（把非法收入改头换面，变为貌似合法的收入）

参考例句：

• Separate the white clothes from the dark clothes before laundering. 洗衣前应当把浅色衣服和深色衣服分开。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• He was charged with laundering money. 他被指控洗钱。 来自《简明英汉词典》

19 prosecutor   

n.起诉人；检察官，公诉人

参考例句：

• The defender argued down the prosecutor at the court.辩护人在法庭上驳倒了起诉人。
• The prosecutor would tear your testimony to pieces.检查官会把你的证言驳得体无完肤。

20 capabilities   

n.能力( capability的名词复数 )；可能；容量；[复数]潜在能力

参考例句：

• He was somewhat pompous and had a high opinion of his own capabilities. 他有点自大，自视甚高。 来自辞典例句
• Some programmers use tabs to break complex product capabilities into smaller chunks. 一些程序员认为，标签可以将复杂的功能分为每个窗格一组简单的功能。 来自About Face 3交互设计精髓

21 leverage   

n.力量，影响；杠杆作用，杠杆的力量

参考例句：

• We'll have to use leverage to move this huge rock.我们不得不借助杠杆之力来移动这块巨石。
• He failed in the project because he could gain no leverage. 因为他没有影响力，他的计划失败了。

22 extraordinarily   

adv.格外地；极端地

参考例句：

• She is an extraordinarily beautiful girl.她是个美丽非凡的姑娘。
• The sea was extraordinarily calm that morning.那天清晨，大海出奇地宁静。

23 subpoenaed   

v.（用传票）传唤（某人）( subpoena的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• The court subpoenaed her to appear as a witness. 法庭传唤她出庭作证。
• The finance director is subpoenaed by prosecution. 财务经理被检查机关传讯。 来自《简明英汉词典》

24 advisers   

顾问，劝告者( adviser的名词复数 )； （指导大学新生学科问题等的）指导教授

参考例句：

• a member of the President's favoured circle of advisers 总统宠爱的顾问班子中的一员
• She withdrew to confer with her advisers before announcing a decision. 她先去请教顾问然后再宣布决定。

25 counselors   

n.顾问( counselor的名词复数 )；律师；（使馆等的）参赞；（协助学生解决问题的）指导老师

参考例句：

• Counselors began an inquiry into industrial needs. 顾问们开始调查工业方面的需要。 来自《现代英汉综合大词典》
• We have experienced counselors available day and night. ) 这里有经验的法律顾问全天候值班。） 来自超越目标英语 第4册

26 overriding   

a.最主要的

参考例句：

• Development is of overriding importance. 发展是硬道理
• My overriding concern is to raise the standards of state education. 我最关心的是提高国民教育水平。

27 coordinating   

v.使协调，使调和( coordinate的现在分词 )；协调；协同；成为同等

参考例句：

• He abolished the Operations Coordinating Board and the Planning Board. 他废除了行动协调委员会和计划委员会。 来自辞典例句
• He's coordinating the wedding, and then we're not going to invite him? 他是来协调婚礼的，难道我们不去请他？ 来自电影对白

28 legitimate   

adj.合法的，合理的，合乎逻辑的；v.使合法

参考例句：

• Sickness is a legitimate reason for asking for leave.生病是请假的一个正当的理由。
• That's a perfectly legitimate fear.怀有这种恐惧完全在情理之中。

29 oversight   

n.勘漏，失察，疏忽

参考例句：

• I consider this a gross oversight on your part.我把这件事看作是你的一大疏忽。
• Your essay was not marked through an oversight on my part.由于我的疏忽你的文章没有打分。

30 defender   

n.保卫者，拥护者，辩护人

参考例句：

• He shouldered off a defender and shot at goal.他用肩膀挡开防守队员，然后射门。
• The defender argued down the prosecutor at the court.辩护人在法庭上驳倒了起诉人。