美国国家公共电台 NPR Maria Butina Says She Was 'Building Peace.' That's Not How The Feds See It

 

ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:

Her photograph has been everywhere - long, red hair. Often she cradles a gun, and she's often accompanied by headlines posing this question. Is she a Russian spy?

(SOUNDBITE OF MEDIA MONTAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: Is Maria Butina a Russian national?

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: Maria Butina is currently in jail in Washington, D.C.

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #3: ...Accused Maria Butina of being a Russian spy.

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #4: ...A Kremlin agent.

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #5: The red-haired Russian is accused...

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #6: ...Gun-loving graduate student...

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #7: Maria Butina...

SHAPIRO: Maria Butina is so far the only Russian to go to prison in connection with her country's efforts to interfere¹ in American politics.

AILSA CHANG, HOST:

Her case has been so widely covered it's sometimes seemed the only person not weighing in was Butina herself. Her voice has been almost entirely² absent since her arrest this past July until now. She's given her first U.S. interview since she was sentenced to 18 months in prison after pleading guilty to conspiracy³ to act as an agent of Russia. She gave that interview to our colleague Mary Louise Kelly.

MARY LOUISE KELLY, BYLINE⁴: We gave Maria Butina a time - 2 p.m. - and our number. And then we sat by the phone in the studio and waited.

(SOUNDBITE OF PHONE RINGING)

COMPUTER-GENERATED VOICE #1: Hello. This is a prepaid collect call from...

COMPUTER-GENERATED VOICE #2: ...An inmate⁵ at...

COMPUTER-GENERATED VOICE #3: ...Alexandria Detention⁶ Center.

KELLY: Now, I had driven out to Alexandria Detention Center in the D.C. suburbs weeks ago to try to convince her to give us an interview. In person, Butina looked thinner than in photographs - no makeup⁷, no jewelry⁸, wearing glasses and green prison scrubs, that famous red hair hanging to her waist. I wanted to hear her story - why she came to America, how she built a network of influential⁹ Americans inside the National Rifle Association and other conservative circles and then reported her activities back to Moscow, why she didn't register as a foreign agent as required by law. Weeks passed. Finally she agreed to talk on the record. Under prison rules, we couldn't tape in person, hence the call.

Does a warden¹⁰ have to help you place the call? How does it work?

MARIA BUTINA: No, I just - happily, you guys in the United States have your First Amendment¹¹ right, meaning I can use the phone as well as everybody else. Though I prefer mostly to keep silence for right now because I'm still in the middle of a storm.

KELLY: I want to ask just a few very direct yes or no questions. Are you a Russian spy?

BUTINA: No.

KELLY: Were you reporting to anyone in the Russian government during your time here?

BUTINA: I was reporting to a Russian official, and his name is Alexander Torshin.

KELLY: Alexander Torshin - at the time, he was deputy governor of Russia's central bank, well-connected in Kremlin circles and, according to U.S. prosecutors¹², Butina's handler here in the U.S. So was he telling her where to go, who to meet? Was Torshin or anyone else in the Russian government paying her?

BUTINA: Absolutely not. Everything that I've done - I've never officially worked for anyone, and I viewed - I have always viewed our relationships as a granddaughter and a grandfather. My title as a special assistant has appeared because I've been travelling with Mr. Torshin, helping¹³ him to translate because he speaks no English at all. And so at one occasion, one of the hosts said, well, you, Ms. Butina, would like to have one room with a king-sized bed with Mr. Torshin or two separate rooms? This question did offend me a lot because I deserve to be treated as a strong and smart, intelligent woman, not as a prostitute. So I called Mr. Torshin and said, look; could you please make business cards for me so they won't view me as your escort agent? And he said...

KELLY: So that it would appear to be a professional relationship...

BUTINA: Yeah.

KELLY: ...And you had business cards that you could show.

BUTINA: Yes. It is an issue.

KELLY: Were you aware at the time that Alexander Torshin was passing on the information you were giving him to the Russian government, to the Foreign Ministry¹⁴?

BUTINA: Only on one occasion. In fact, if we look at the situation, he just said, if I don't mind if he shares one of my notes with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. And there I said that I would be honored because, well, I am a young woman, and there - if people in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs would consider my analysis as valuable, it was very pleasant for me. So of course - I said of course yes. I don't know, as a matter of fact, what reaction was on my note. And I don't even remember if he passed that note.

KELLY: What is your relationship with Mr. Torshin now?

BUTINA: We haven't been in touch, and I don't know what was the reason of him remaining silent and keeping his distance from me. And I'm sure it's not a malicious¹⁵ intent, and I think he's a very noble man.

KELLY: He has been sanctioned by the U.S. Treasury¹⁶. NPR has gotten hold of some of the evidence laying out why he was sanctioned, and it notes his links to a leader of organized crime. It suggests that he was providing advice on how to launder¹⁷ money. What do you know of of Mr. Torshin's alleged¹⁸ links to organized crime, to money laundering¹⁹, to any of that?

BUTINA: Well, I don't believe it's true, but I have no knowledge about this, absolutely none. One time I asked him about it, and he denied it. I never lied, and if I don't know, I tell you I don't know.

KELLY: The one count that you pleaded guilty to was conspiracy to act as an agent of Russia. Were you part of a wider Kremlin effort to influence U.S. politics?

BUTINA: Absolutely not. I don't know anything that was going on with the elections rather than the media reports.

KELLY: But you were here in the U.S. living here in 2016, in 2017, in 2018 as every front page is filled with news about the Russia probe and Russia investigations²⁰ and Russian efforts to try to influence U.S. politics. What was going through your mind as you read this?

BUTINA: It has been very painful for me because I've never hide my love to my motherland, neither to this country where I got graciously approved to get the visa and got great education. I love both countries, and I was building peace. So any additional discord²¹ for me is painful. This is - the worst pain of my situation now - and I've mentioned this in the court - was that I am embarrassed that instead of creating peace by not registering, I created discord. That is what I'm going to carry for the whole my life. This is what makes me most upset, not the 18 months that I got.

KELLY: Help me help other Americans listening to understand because as part of your guilty plea, you admitted to carrying out a secret political and influence campaign. You admitted to being part of an organized effort which was backed by Russian officials to open unofficial lines of communication with Americans, with current officials here in Washington. And yet you're saying you were not in any way part of a broader Russian effort to influence U.S. politics.

BUTINA: We are talking about officials who would attend the National Prayer Breakfast. We would be talking about similar-minded people of the National Rifle Association that happen to be sometimes politicians as well. Is that significant? Oh, yeah, absolutely. In order to meet with them - I didn't know, but I should have registered. And I failed to do so, and I completely accept my responsibilities for doing that. But nowhere it has been said that I did any covert²² or illegal activities. That wouldn't be appropriate to say that this is all one grand, giant plan and I'm a part of some grand, giant plan. There is no proof of that.

KELLY: As you know, the U.S. government, the FBI, U.S. prosecutors have seen your activities through a very different lens, and I want you to have the opportunity to respond to some of the claims that have been made against you starting with U.S. prosecutors who say your actions threatened American national security, that you were part of a spot-and-assess operation, that you were helping identify Americans who might be susceptible²³ to recruitment by Russian intelligence. These are claims that U.S. prosecutors made in court. Are they true?

BUTINA: No. Plus I think we're missing one word - potentially harming. So for right now, from the evidence that we have, it could be seen that, yes, I did meet certain people. Not all of them but some of them are known to Mr. Torshin. We know he did some reporting or some notes to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. We don't know if it ever went to any intelligence services, and we don't know if it's significant for this intelligence services. It feels for me that this is, like, all a potentially, possibly speculation²⁴ which has no evidence. So I do question the U.S. justice system, and I think you guys should, too.

KELLY: You must know, though, as you were networking and getting access to people here and feeding that information back to Russia that it would be used to advance Russia's interests.

BUTINA: There are a lot of things that could have been used for advance Russian interests, including peace building. And I think it's actually also helping to America as well.

KELLY: Although it's been documented that the information you provided made its way to Russia's Foreign Ministry, the Russian equivalent of the State Department. And I noticed, you know, if you look at Twitter today, the Foreign Ministry of Russia has you as its profile picture with the hashtag #FreeMariaButina.

BUTINA: It was the biggest surprise for me, you know? I was the person who fought for gun rights, and gun rights are not the most popular topic - let me put it this way - in their presidential - Russian presidential administration. And so my biggest surprise was when two days after my arrest I saw Russian embassy - two consuls²⁵. And I look at them and said, like, what are you guys doing here? I didn't expect my country to defend me at all because I am not a pro-governmental person at all. And their support for me has been a big surprise.

COMPUTER-GENERATED VOICE #4: Thank you for using Securus. Goodbye.

KELLY: That's right. The prison phone cuts you off after a certain number of minutes. But I had more questions, so we waited and hoped she would call back - the second part of my interview with convicted Russian agent Maria Butina in a moment.

1 interfere   

v.(in)干涉，干预；(with)妨碍，打扰

参考例句：

• If we interfere, it may do more harm than good.如果我们干预的话，可能弊多利少。
• When others interfere in the affair,it always makes troubles. 别人一卷入这一事件，棘手的事情就来了。

2 entirely   

ad.全部地，完整地；完全地，彻底地

参考例句：

• The fire was entirely caused by their neglect of duty. 那场火灾完全是由于他们失职而引起的。
• His life was entirely given up to the educational work. 他的一生统统献给了教育工作。

3 conspiracy   

n.阴谋，密谋，共谋

参考例句：

• The men were found guilty of conspiracy to murder.这些人被裁决犯有阴谋杀人罪。
• He claimed that it was all a conspiracy against him.他声称这一切都是一场针对他的阴谋。

4 byline   

n.署名；v.署名

参考例句：

• His byline was absent as well.他的署名也不见了。
• We wish to thank the author of this article which carries no byline.我们要感谢这篇文章的那位没有署名的作者。

5 inmate   

n.被收容者；(房屋等的)居住人；住院人

参考例句：

• I am an inmate of that hospital.我住在那家医院。
• The prisoner is his inmate.那个囚犯和他同住一起。

6 detention   

n.滞留，停留；拘留，扣留；(教育)留下

参考例句：

• He was kept in detention by the police.他被警察扣留了。
• He was in detention in connection with the bribery affair.他因与贿赂事件有牵连而被拘留了。

7 makeup   

n.组织；性格；化装品

参考例句：

• Those who failed the exam take a makeup exam.这次考试不及格的人必须参加补考。
• Do you think her beauty could makeup for her stupidity?你认为她的美丽能弥补她的愚蠢吗？

8 jewelry   

n.（jewllery）（总称）珠宝

参考例句：

• The burglars walked off with all my jewelry.夜盗偷走了我的全部珠宝。
• Jewelry and lace are mostly feminine belongings.珠宝和花边多数是女性用品。

9 influential   

adj.有影响的，有权势的

参考例句：

• He always tries to get in with the most influential people.他总是试图巴结最有影响的人物。
• He is a very influential man in the government.他在政府中是个很有影响的人物。

10 warden   

n.监察员，监狱长，看守人，监护人

参考例句：

• He is the warden of an old people's home.他是一家养老院的管理员。
• The warden of the prison signed the release.监狱长签发释放令。

11 amendment   

n.改正，修正，改善，修正案

参考例句：

• The amendment was rejected by 207 voters to 143.这项修正案以207票对143票被否决。
• The Opposition has tabled an amendment to the bill.反对党已经就该议案提交了一项修正条款。

12 prosecutors   

检举人( prosecutor的名词复数 )； 告发人； 起诉人； 公诉人

参考例句：

• In some places,public prosecutors are elected rather than appointed. 在有些地方，检察官是经选举而非任命产生的。 来自口语例句
• You've been summoned to the Prosecutors' Office, 2 days later. 你在两天以后被宣到了检察官的办公室。

13 helping   

n.食物的一份&adj.帮助人的，辅助的

参考例句：

• The poor children regularly pony up for a second helping of my hamburger. 那些可怜的孩子们总是要求我把我的汉堡包再给他们一份。
• By doing this, they may at times be helping to restore competition. 这样一来, 他在某些时候,有助于竞争的加强。

14 ministry   

n.(政府的)部；牧师

参考例句：

• They sent a deputation to the ministry to complain.他们派了一个代表团到部里投诉。
• We probed the Air Ministry statements.我们调查了空军部的记录。

15 malicious   

adj.有恶意的，心怀恶意的

参考例句：

• You ought to kick back at such malicious slander. 你应当反击这种恶毒的污蔑。
• Their talk was slightly malicious.他们的谈话有点儿心怀不轨。

16 treasury   

n.宝库；国库，金库；文库

参考例句：

• The Treasury was opposed in principle to the proposals.财政部原则上反对这些提案。
• This book is a treasury of useful information.这本书是有价值的信息宝库。

17 launder   

v.洗涤；洗黑钱（把来路可疑的钱弄得似乎合法）

参考例句：

• She wore a freshly laundered and starched white shirt.她穿一件刚刚浆洗熨烫过的白色衬衣。
• The gang launders the steal money through their chain of restaurants.这帮匪徒通过他们的连锁饭店洗赃款。

18 alleged   

a.被指控的，嫌疑的

参考例句：

• It was alleged that he had taken bribes while in office. 他被指称在任时收受贿赂。
• alleged irregularities in the election campaign 被指称竞选运动中的不正当行为

19 laundering   

n.洗涤（衣等），洗烫（衣等）；洗（钱）v.洗（衣服等），洗烫（衣服等）( launder的现在分词 )；洗（黑钱）（把非法收入改头换面，变为貌似合法的收入）

参考例句：

• Separate the white clothes from the dark clothes before laundering. 洗衣前应当把浅色衣服和深色衣服分开。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• He was charged with laundering money. 他被指控洗钱。 来自《简明英汉词典》

20 investigations   

（正式的）调查( investigation的名词复数 )； 侦查； 科学研究； 学术研究

参考例句：

• His investigations were intensive and thorough but revealed nothing. 他进行了深入彻底的调查，但没有发现什么。
• He often sent them out to make investigations. 他常常派他们出去作调查。

21 discord   

n.不和，意见不合，争论，（音乐）不和谐

参考例句：

• These two answers are in discord.这两个答案不一样。
• The discord of his music was hard on the ear.他演奏的不和谐音很刺耳。

22 covert   

adj.隐藏的；暗地里的

参考例句：

• We should learn to fight with enemy in an overt and covert way.我们应学会同敌人做公开和隐蔽的斗争。
• The army carried out covert surveillance of the building for several months.军队对这座建筑物进行了数月的秘密监视。

23 susceptible   

adj.过敏的，敏感的；易动感情的，易受感动的

参考例句：

• Children are more susceptible than adults.孩子比成人易受感动。
• We are all susceptible to advertising.我们都易受广告的影响。

24 speculation   

n.思索，沉思；猜测；投机

参考例句：

• Her mind is occupied with speculation.她的头脑忙于思考。
• There is widespread speculation that he is going to resign.人们普遍推测他要辞职。

25 consuls   

领事( consul的名词复数 )； （古罗马共和国时期）执政官 （古罗马共和国及其军队的最高首长，同时共有两位，每年选举一次）

参考例句：

• American consuls warned that millions more were preparing to leave war-ravaged districts. 美国驻外领事们预告，还有几百万人正在准备离开战争破坏的地区。
• The legionaries, on their victorious return, refused any longer to obey the consuls. 军团士兵在凯旋归国时，不肯服从执政官的命令。