美国国家公共电台 NPR Former Colorado Governor And 2020 Candidate Urges Distance From 'Socialism'

 

NOEL KING, HOST:

Former Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper sees a somewhat lonely path to the Democratic nomination¹ for president. Hickenlooper is running as a pro-business moderate. He co-founded a brewery² and eventually turned his business success into political success. He won the election to be mayor of Denver and then became a two-term governor of a purple state.

Hickenlooper's belief in market-based solutions to problems puts him at odds³ with some other candidates in the primary. In an interview not long after he declared his candidacy, he seemed uncertain whether to call himself a capitalist. So we started there in our conversation as part of our Opening Arguments series.

JOHN HICKENLOOPER: I am a capitalist, without question. I started 20 businesses. I created a couple thousand jobs. But I was trying to say that capitalism⁴ today isn't working for a large number of Americans. Seventy-five to 80% of American families have a hard time balancing their household budgets every month. And we used to have a system when I was a kid that people would be able to get security and opportunity. Now I think people feel nothing but anxiety.

KING: All right. Let's talk about some specifics there. Would you support a federal minimum wage?

HICKENLOOPER: Yeah, I think we have to increase the minimum wage. I'd expand the earned income tax credit. But I think one of the things we have to really look at is, why were - there are each year fewer businesses being created? And that's where job creation really comes and where quality job creation comes from.

KING: Governor, let me have you answer your own question. Why are fewer businesses being created?

HICKENLOOPER: There are a combination of reasons behind the reduction in business creation. One is that we - like any enterprise - and government is an enterprise - we've had more and more kind of red tape. And sometimes that bureaucracy is excessive and makes it harder for people - the successful employees in somebody else's company - makes it harder for them to take a leap and start their own business.

But I also think a big part of it is we have a consolidation⁵ of just two or three companies dominate that industry, right? There - 84% of all the hardware sales are from two companies. So starting a neighborhood hardware company is almost out of the question. People don't think they have a chance.

KING: The question of whether or not certain companies are monopolies has come up again and again throughout the course of this campaign. Would you break up the big tech giants - Facebook and Amazon - as Elizabeth Warren has said she would do?

HICKENLOOPER: The tech companies cover a whole spectrum⁶ of businesses. And I think you'd have to go through the processes and procedures we have in place to look at, are they hurting competition, and are they negatively affecting the prices that consumers pay for their services and their goods.

KING: Well, a lot of research has been done into it. What do you think? Do you think they are?

HICKENLOOPER: I think that Amazon, in certain ways, clearly is restraining the creation of businesses. And I think that's an important filter. That's my entrepreneurial filter. I mean, Amazon is able to see which of their vendors⁷ are most successful in selling their products. And then if Amazon decides to, they can go and acquire that specific company. That seems like an unfair competitive advantage to many people.

KING: You said that red tape is preventing the creation of businesses. President Trump⁸ has famously made deregulation a big part of his pitch to the American people. Does President Trump have a point? Are we an overly regulated society?

HICKENLOOPER: When you get rid of all the regulations, as Donald Trump is suggesting, really, we become incredibly vulnerable to what appear to be small decisions, but they become bigger decisions. We need regulation. What I was saying is we don't need red tape, right? While I was governor, we went through 24,500 rules and regulations. And we looked for the red tape that really is not adding regulatory value.

But at the same time we were doing that, we sat down with the oil and gas industry and the environmental community, and we created a complete, integrated system of regulations around what they call fugitive⁹ emissions¹⁰, but escaping methane¹¹. We addressed that. We're the first state in the country. And they're now rolling that out as national policy in Canada. That kind of regulation, which actually protects the environment and is done efficiently¹², we desperately¹³ need. And Donald Trump is just getting rid of all regulation willy-nilly.

KING: Democrats¹⁴ want to win back the Senate. And it's been said that if you chose to run against Republican Cory Gardner, that you would have a real shot in that race. Why go after the presidency¹⁵ instead of helping¹⁶ the Democratic Party win back the Senate?

HICKENLOOPER: Well, I've spent my whole life - as a entrepreneur, as a mayor, as a governor - building teams, assembling talent. We've been able to accomplish things again and again that people didn't think we could do. We got to almost universal health care in Colorado. We did the methane regulations I described. We beat the NRA with tough new gun laws. This is all through that collaborative effort of building a team and getting things done. That's very different than the legislative¹⁷ process.

KING: Has Chuck Schumer called you and urged you to run for Senate?

HICKENLOOPER: (Laughter) I've talked to Chuck Schumer, who is one of the most persuasive¹⁸ people, and I have more admiration¹⁹ for how he does his job than words can express.

KING: You're running as a centrist, even as much of the Democratic Party is moving to the left. How do you plan to sell your ideas to an increasingly progressive party?

HICKENLOOPER: Well, I talked to - obviously, I've been all over Iowa and New Hampshire. And most people really want to beat Trump. And I think if we don't stand up and say that we don't - you know, that Democrats don't stand for socialism, we're going to end up reelecting the worst president this country's ever had. And I feel sometimes a lonely voice.

But I think we've got to speak loud and clear that jobs matter. Our economy has to grow. And certainly we want to address income inequality. Absolutely we want to make sure that women have a right to choose, that civil rights and social justice are addressed aggressively. But we've also got to recognize to win in Ohio and Michigan, North Carolina and Wisconsin, we're going to have to, you know, get more to those kitchen table issues that have to do with, you know, somebody's job and - or how many jobs they're having to work just to balance their household budget.

KING: And do you think your fellow candidates are not doing that?

HICKENLOOPER: Well, they're certainly doing it to a certain extent. I'm not diminishing climate change or - as an important issue or health care. But I don't think we're going to address climate change by guaranteeing every American a federal job, which is what part of the Green New Deal was. I don't think we're going to address the spiraling inflation in health care by forcibly telling 150 million people that we're going to take away their private insurance.

You know, these are what a lot of Americans look at as facets²⁰ or aspects of socialism. And I think we've got to be more focused and deliberate of saying repeatedly, again and again, that we want to get to address climate change, but we want to do it in a way that works.

KING: Governor, you are a 67-year-old white man at a time when the Democratic Party says it prizes diversity. You're running against 22 other candidates. Many of them are women, people of color. Is now the time for you?

HICKENLOOPER: One of the things I've always loved about the Democratic Party is that it is a big-tent party, and it embraces opportunity for all people. And I'm running for president because I think my life experience can address this Trump-fueled national crisis of division that has been moving us backward. And I look at my experience of bringing people together - businesses and nonprofits and Republicans and Democrats - and to really get things done, to get to near-universal health care, create the No. 1 economy in the country for three consecutive²¹ years - I think that record stands for itself.

KING: Governor John Hickenlooper, thank you so much for joining us.

HICKENLOOPER: You bet, Noel. Thank you so much.

KING: That's former Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper, talking to us for our Opening Arguments series.

1 nomination   

n.提名，任命，提名权

参考例句：

• John is favourite to get the nomination for club president.约翰最有希望被提名为俱乐部主席。
• Few people pronounced for his nomination.很少人表示赞成他的提名。

2 brewery   

n.啤酒厂

参考例句：

• The brewery had 25 heavy horses delivering beer in London.啤酒厂有25匹高头大马在伦敦城中运送啤酒。
• When business was good,the brewery employed 20 people.在生意好的时候，这家酿造厂曾经雇佣过20人。

3 odds   

n.让步，机率，可能性，比率；胜败优劣之别

参考例句：

• The odds are 5 to 1 that she will win.她获胜的机会是五比一。
• Do you know the odds of winning the lottery once?你知道赢得一次彩票的几率多大吗？

4 capitalism   

n.资本主义

参考例句：

• The essence of his argument is that capitalism cannot succeed.他的论点的核心是资本主义不能成功。
• Capitalism began to develop in Russia in the 19th century.十九世纪资本主义在俄国开始发展。

5 consolidation   

n.合并,巩固

参考例句：

• The denser population necessitates closer consolidation both for internal and external action. 住得日益稠密的居民，对内和对外都不得不更紧密地团结起来。 来自英汉非文学 - 家庭、私有制和国家的起源
• The state ensures the consolidation and growth of the state economy. 国家保障国营经济的巩固和发展。 来自汉英非文学 - 中国宪法

6 spectrum   

n.谱，光谱，频谱；范围，幅度，系列

参考例句：

• This is a kind of atomic spectrum.这是一种原子光谱。
• We have known much of the constitution of the solar spectrum.关于太阳光谱的构成，我们已了解不少。

7 vendors   

n.摊贩( vendor的名词复数 )；小贩；（房屋等的）卖主；卖方

参考例句：

• The vendors were gazundered at the last minute. 卖主在最后一刻被要求降低房价。
• At the same time, interface standards also benefIt'software vendors. 同时，界面标准也有利于软件开发商。 来自About Face 3交互设计精髓

8 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

9 fugitive   

adj.逃亡的，易逝的；n.逃犯，逃亡者

参考例句：

• The police were able to deduce where the fugitive was hiding.警方成功地推断出那逃亡者躲藏的地方。
• The fugitive is believed to be headed for the border.逃犯被认为在向国境线逃窜。

10 emissions   

排放物( emission的名词复数 )； 散发物（尤指气体）

参考例句：

• Most scientists accept that climate change is linked to carbon emissions. 大多数科学家都相信气候变化与排放的含碳气体有关。
• Dangerous emissions radiate from plutonium. 危险的辐射物从钚放散出来。

11 methane   

n.甲烷，沼气

参考例句：

• The blast was caused by pockets of methane gas that ignited.爆炸是由数袋甲烷气体着火引起的。
• Methane may have extraterrestrial significance.甲烷具有星际意义。

12 efficiently   

adv.高效率地，有能力地

参考例句：

• The worker oils the machine to operate it more efficiently.工人给机器上油以使机器运转更有效。
• Local authorities have to learn to allocate resources efficiently.地方政府必须学会有效地分配资源。

13 desperately   

adv.极度渴望地，绝望地，孤注一掷地

参考例句：

• He was desperately seeking a way to see her again.他正拼命想办法再见她一面。
• He longed desperately to be back at home.他非常渴望回家。

14 democrats   

n.民主主义者，民主人士( democrat的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The Democrats held a pep rally on Capitol Hill yesterday. 民主党昨天在国会山召开了竞选誓师大会。
• The democrats organize a filibuster in the senate. 民主党党员组织了阻挠议事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

15 presidency   

n.总统(校长，总经理)的职位(任期)

参考例句：

• Roosevelt was elected four times to the presidency of the United States.罗斯福连续当选四届美国总统。
• Two candidates are emerging as contestants for the presidency.两位候选人最终成为总统职位竞争者。

16 helping   

n.食物的一份&adj.帮助人的，辅助的

参考例句：

• The poor children regularly pony up for a second helping of my hamburger. 那些可怜的孩子们总是要求我把我的汉堡包再给他们一份。
• By doing this, they may at times be helping to restore competition. 这样一来, 他在某些时候,有助于竞争的加强。

17 legislative   

n.立法机构，立法权；adj.立法的，有立法权的

参考例句：

• Congress is the legislative branch of the U.S. government.国会是美国政府的立法部门。
• Today's hearing was just the first step in the legislative process.今天的听证会只是展开立法程序的第一步。

18 persuasive   

adj.有说服力的，能说得使人相信的

参考例句：

• His arguments in favour of a new school are very persuasive.他赞成办一座新学校的理由很有说服力。
• The evidence was not really persuasive enough.证据并不是太有说服力。

19 admiration   

n.钦佩，赞美，羡慕

参考例句：

• He was lost in admiration of the beauty of the scene.他对风景之美赞不绝口。
• We have a great admiration for the gold medalists.我们对金牌获得者极为敬佩。

20 facets   

n.（宝石或首饰的）小平面( facet的名词复数 )；（事物的）面；方面

参考例句：

• The question had many facets. 这个问题是多方面的。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• A fully cut brilliant diamond has 68 facets. 经过充分切刻的光彩夺目的钻石有68个小平面。 来自《简明英汉词典》

21 consecutive   

adj.连续的，联贯的，始终一贯的

参考例句：

• It has rained for four consecutive days.已连续下了四天雨。
• The policy of our Party is consecutive.我党的政策始终如一。