PBS高端访谈:看最高法院如何裁定同性恋婚姻

 　　GWEN IFILL: Now we look at how the Supreme¹ Court's rulings on same-sex marriage are being interpreted across the country.

　　Ray Suarez has our story.

　　RAY SUAREZ: The June decisions on the Defense² of Marriage Act and California's Proposition 8 didn't end the debate over gay marriage. The issue is still on the docket in courthouses in New Jersey⁴, Pennsylvania and elsewhere, up for debate in state legislatures, and on the ballot⁵.

　　For an update, we turn to John Eastman, a Chapman University Law School professor and chairman of board of the National Organization for Marriage, and James Esseks, the director of the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender and AIDS Project at the American Civil Liberties Union.

　　James Esseks, did the twin decisions of the Supreme Court on DOMA and Prop³ 8 change the legal strategy, change the landscape that faces both pro-legalization and anti-legalization forces?

　　JAMES ESSEKS, American Civil Liberties Union: Well, it didn't change the doctrine⁶ or the strategy.

　　What it does -- but it reinforces what we're already doing. That is, we have gotten to the place we're at right now, which is 13 states plus the District of Columbia, that allow same-sex couples the freedom to marry, through three different means.

　　We have got it through some court decisions. A bunch of state legislatures, seven state legislatures passed those bills. And then the people voted for the freedom to marry last fall at the ballot in three states. And our way forward is really more of the same. We're going to go to the state legislatures. We're going to go to the ballot and where appropriate we're going to go to court.

　　RAY SUAREZ: Professor Eastman, last week, a New Jersey court heard an appeal of the existing state law there, based on the Supreme Court's reasoning in the DOMA case.

　　Montgomery County, Pennsylvania's registrar⁷ is marrying people, contrary to the laws of Pennsylvania, he says based on the Supreme Court's reasoning the DOMA case.

　　Does this change what the anti-legalization forces have to do now?

　　JOHN EASTMAN, National Organization for Marriage: Well, I think it's very important. And the people that are opposed to redefining the very core institution of marriage are going to continue to fight.

　　Justice Kennedy's opinion in the Defense of Marriage Act case rests heavily on the fact that states are the primary determiners of marriage policy in our country. So it's a little odd for somebody in Pennsylvania to say that, I'm going to use that decision to undercut the policy of Pennsylvania with respect to marriage.

　　Now, there are other parts of Justice Kennedy's opinion that are very flowery language that have a more equal protection-type aspect to them, but Justice Kennedy doesn't settle that question. Section 2 of the Defense of Marriage Act is still in place. And that says that no state has to recognize marriages performed in other states if it runs counter to the basic policy judgment⁸ of the state.

　　So the Pennsylvania local registrar, I think, is simply wrong. We're going to face that out in litigation there and in a number of other states where similar actions are being taken.

　　RAY SUAREZ: Professor, in those other states that have their own Defense of Marriage Act on the books, does the Supreme Court opinion send a signal that there may be some patches in the language, some things to make their laws federal DOMA-proof? Do there have to be some changes?

　　JOHN EASTMAN: I don't think so.

　　The statutes⁹ and the state constitutional provisions that define marriage as it has been through most of human history, as a man and a woman, don't need to be changed. Either the Supreme Court is going to find a right to redefine marriage in the federal Constitution and all of those will be invalid¹⁰, including in all 37 states that continue to have traditional marriage laws, or the Supreme Court is not going to find that right in the federal Constitution or make it up, in which case we will fight this out in the states in the political arena¹¹, which in a democracy is exactly where basic policy judgments¹² such as this need to be fought out.

　　RAY SUAREZ: James Esseks, as you mentioned, the fight was already well under way in a lot of states where people were just waiting to see what the Supreme Court would do.

　　If your look at a place like Illinois, where the Senate has passed a legalization law, the governor has promised to sign it if it reaches his desk, but it was pulled before it went to the House, what effect does the Supreme Court ruling have? Does it give new hope, new strength to people who want to make it legal in Illinois?

　　JAMES ESSEKS: The Supreme Court decision in the DOMA case absolutely helps the political movement.

　　And it does it in some states in a very simple way. Prior to the demise¹³ of the Defense of Marriage Act, if Illinois gave, as it does, protections to same-sex couples in a civil union, you didn't get much in the way of different protections if you got a marriage.

　　Now, after DOMA is gone, if Illinois gives same-sex couples civil unions, it gets all the state protections, but none of the federal protections that come with marriage. But if Illinois flips¹⁴ to giving the freedom to marry to same-sex couples, all of a sudden, same-sex couples get all the state protections, plus all of the federal protections.

　　And so there's now a vast disparity, even greater than there was before, between civil unions and domestic partner -- and marriage. I think that is going to mean that there are a lot of legislators who are taking another look at this issue.

　　RAY SUAREZ: Professor, you heard James Esseks say that it gives political strength to the pro-legalization forces. What is the assignment now for people who, like yourself, want to keep the situation where this?

　　JOHN EASTMAN: Well, I think the other side of that coin is what we saw happen in Illinois.

　　Both parts of the legislature are controlled by Democrats¹⁵, and yet the African-American pastors¹⁶ rose up to put a stop to this train that was going forward in Illinois. And they almost single-handedly stopped the redefinition of marriage bill from going through the Illinois legislature.

　　And I think that's particularly interesting, because African-American pastors confront the demise of the family more than almost any other segment of our population. And what we're trying to do here is redefine the institution of marriage to say that fathers are optional. That's predictably going to have very devastating¹⁷ consequences on civil society.

　　And I think that's why this thing was pulled from the Illinois legislature before it went forward. People are standing¹⁸ back now and starting to think about the collateral¹⁹ consequences that may flow from this radical²⁰ redefinition of marriage.

　　RAY SUAREZ: Is there a 50-state strategy, James Esseks, or have several different strategies been unleashed²¹ over the past several months?

　　JAMES ESSEKS: Well, we're continuing to work through multiple means to get more states that allow same-sex couples to marry.

　　Look, it's clear what marriage is. Marriage is about family and commitment and love. And when same-sex couples make the commitment that is at the core of marriage, it's only fair that they get the protections that should come with that and that come with marriage in America. And that's all we're looking for.

　　I think one thing going on is we have -- the change, the increasing patchwork²² that we have in terms of protections for same-sex couples in this country is leading to very significant problems. So, for example, we are representing a lesbian couple that lives in Northern Virginia. One of them works in D.C., and the two of them got married in D.C.

　　When this woman is at work during the day, she is married. She is a married woman with a daughter. And when she drives home to Northern Virginia on her commute²³ at the end of the day, all of a sudden, in the eyes of the state of Virginia, she becomes an unmarried single mother.

　　That's not what her life is like. And it doesn't make sense to treat her as unmarried, when she has made the commitment at the core of marriage because she got married. She and her wife got married under D.C. law.

　　What we're looking for is a very simple rule. When you're married, you're married, and it shouldn't change when you cross state lines.

　　RAY SUAREZ: James Esseks, we are going to have to stop it there.

　　But, Professor, the next chapter in this is what America will do after a long time of all states recognizing all marriages and the federal government recognizing them all.

　　Gentlemen, thank you for joining us.

　　JOHN EASTMAN: Thank you.

　　JAMES ESSEKS: Thank you very much.

1 supreme   

adj.极度的，最重要的；至高的，最高的

参考例句：

• It was the supreme moment in his life.那是他一生中最重要的时刻。
• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。

2 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

3 prop   

vt.支撑；n.支柱，支撑物；支持者，靠山

参考例句：

• A worker put a prop against the wall of the tunnel to keep it from falling.一名工人用东西支撑住隧道壁好使它不会倒塌。
• The government does not intend to prop up declining industries.政府无意扶持不景气的企业。

4 jersey   

n.运动衫

参考例句：

• He wears a cotton jersey when he plays football.他穿运动衫踢足球。
• They were dressed alike in blue jersey and knickers.他们穿着一致，都是蓝色的运动衫和灯笼短裤。

5 ballot   

n.（不记名）投票，投票总数，投票权；vi.投票

参考例句：

• The members have demanded a ballot.会员们要求投票表决。
• The union said they will ballot members on whether to strike.工会称他们将要求会员投票表决是否罢工。

6 doctrine   

n.教义；主义；学说

参考例句：

• He was impelled to proclaim his doctrine.他不得不宣扬他的教义。
• The council met to consider changes to doctrine.宗教议会开会考虑更改教义。

7 registrar   

n.记录员，登记员；(大学的)注册主任

参考例句：

• You can obtain the application from the registrar.你可以向注册人员索取申请书。
• The manager fired a young registrar.经理昨天解雇了一名年轻的记录员。

8 judgment   

n.审判；判断力，识别力，看法，意见

参考例句：

• The chairman flatters himself on his judgment of people.主席自认为他审视人比别人高明。
• He's a man of excellent judgment.他眼力过人。

9 statutes   

成文法( statute的名词复数 )； 法令； 法规； 章程

参考例句：

• The numerous existing statutes are complicated and poorly coordinated. 目前繁多的法令既十分复杂又缺乏快调。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法
• Each agency is also restricted by the particular statutes governing its activities. 各个机构的行为也受具体法令限制。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法

10 invalid   

n.病人，伤残人；adj.有病的，伤残的；无效的

参考例句：

• He will visit an invalid.他将要去看望一个病人。
• A passport that is out of date is invalid.护照过期是无效的。

11 arena   

n.竞技场，运动场所；竞争场所，舞台

参考例句：

• She entered the political arena at the age of 25. 她25岁进入政界。
• He had not an adequate arena for the exercise of his talents.他没有充分发挥其才能的场所。

12 judgments   

判断( judgment的名词复数 )； 鉴定； 评价； 审判

参考例句：

• A peculiar austerity marked his judgments of modern life. 他对现代生活的批评带着一种特殊的苛刻。
• He is swift with his judgments. 他判断迅速。

13 demise   

n.死亡；v.让渡，遗赠，转让

参考例句：

• He praised the union's aims but predicted its early demise.他赞扬协会的目标，但预期这一协会很快会消亡。
• The war brought about the industry's sudden demise.战争道致这个行业就这么突然垮了。

14 flips   

轻弹( flip的第三人称单数 )； 按（开关）； 快速翻转； 急挥

参考例句：

• Larry flips on the TV while he is on vacation in Budapest. 赖瑞在布达佩斯渡假时，打开电视收看节目。
• He flips through a book before making a decision. 他在决定买下一本书前总要先草草翻阅一下。

15 democrats   

n.民主主义者，民主人士( democrat的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The Democrats held a pep rally on Capitol Hill yesterday. 民主党昨天在国会山召开了竞选誓师大会。
• The democrats organize a filibuster in the senate. 民主党党员组织了阻挠议事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

16 pastors   

n.（基督教的）牧师( pastor的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Do we show respect to our pastors, missionaries, Sunday school teachers? 我们有没有尊敬牧师、宣教士，以及主日学的老师？ 来自互联网
• Should pastors or elders be paid, or serve as a volunteer? 牧师或长老需要付给酬劳，还是志愿的事奉呢？ 来自互联网

17 devastating   

adj.毁灭性的，令人震惊的，强有力的

参考例句：

• It is the most devastating storm in 20 years.这是20年来破坏性最大的风暴。
• Affairs do have a devastating effect on marriages.婚外情确实会对婚姻造成毁灭性的影响。

18 standing   

n.持续，地位；adj.永久的，不动的，直立的，不流动的

参考例句：

• After the earthquake only a few houses were left standing.地震过后只有几幢房屋还立着。
• They're standing out against any change in the law.他们坚决反对对法律做任何修改。

19 collateral   

adj.平行的；旁系的；n.担保品

参考例句：

• Many people use personal assets as collateral for small business loans.很多人把个人财产用作小额商业贷款的抵押品。
• Most people here cannot borrow from banks because they lack collateral.由于拿不出东西作为抵押，这里大部分人无法从银行贷款。

20 radical   

n.激进份子，原子团，根号；adj.根本的，激进的，彻底的

参考例句：

• The patient got a radical cure in the hospital.病人在医院得到了根治。
• She is radical in her demands.她的要求十分偏激。

21 unleashed   

v.把（感情、力量等）释放出来，发泄( unleash的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• The government's proposals unleashed a storm of protest in the press. 政府的提案引发了新闻界的抗议浪潮。
• The full force of his rage was unleashed against me. 他把所有的怒气都发泄在我身上。 来自《简明英汉词典》

22 patchwork   

n.混杂物；拼缝物

参考例句：

• That proposal is nothing else other than a patchwork.那个建议只是一个大杂烩而已。
• She patched new cloth to the old coat,so It'seemed mere patchwork. 她把新布初到那件旧上衣上，所以那件衣服看上去就象拼凑起来的东西。

23 commute   

vi.乘车上下班；vt.减(刑)；折合；n.上下班交通

参考例句：

• I spend much less time on my commute to work now.我现在工作的往返时间要节省好多。
• Most office workers commute from the suburbs.很多公司的职员都是从郊外来上班的。