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M: Ron Rogge from the University of Rochester is heading up the ( the)newly-weds study. And Dr. Gail Saltz is a psychiatrist here in New York and Today contributor. Good morning to both of you.
R & G: Good morning, Matt.
M: Ron, 40% of these marriages are...the divorces ( 40 got )are happening in the first 5 years of marriage. Why are those first 5 years so turbulent?
R: Well, merging your lives together is a really complicated and difficult thing. Suddenly your business partner, your roommates, for most couples, you'll also become parents together, and the joy and the fun that you have with each other can get lost in that tangle.
M: And maybe you had unrealistic expectations going into it. You didn't stop and talk about the things that you should've talked ( should've done )about when you were still dating.
R: True. That. . . . we actually find that, you know, a lot of couples argue about sex, money, finances, urm, chores. But it turns out it doesn't matter as much what you are arguing about. It's how you handle those problems.
M: And actual(ly), and this is what you comment because you say that really one of the ways to avoid this is to remember what you learned in kindergarten. Explain that.
R: Well, it really comes down to being nice to each other. You know, when problems come up, when you have a problem, your partner has a problem or there's a problem between the two of you, trying to handle it with kindness will give you a really long way.
M: Gail, is it. . . is it that easy as all about being nice to each other, sharing your toys and getting naps when you need them?
G: We all know it's , it's an extension of that. The , the take peace talk about communication. And that is so key because you're never gonna be each other's clones. So you're always gonna have to negotiate, you're always gonna have to compromise, and you can't do that unless you talked to the person about what's going on . The other thing is that the feeling of being understood. Nothing makes you feel intimate like feeling like your partner really understands ya.
M: So, clearly in a lot of these marriages especially the ones that're ending in divorce, that line of communication is closing down somehow. (Yes. ) So, so how do ya keep it open because stuff happens as the expression goes?
G: That's correct. But it takes time. You see you've brought up unrealistic expectations and that's true, this is an expectation that it should be bliss. You shouldn't have to say much. This person is in my corner already. So I can just go out and do my things in the world and kind of ignore and come home and they'll just be there. But that's not true. It does take time. It does take effort to communicate. It takes a concerted effort and you have to be vulnerable which lots of people don't want to do.
M: On Wall Street they look at the stock market and they say it's a good indicator what happens in the first couple of weeks in January, generally tells you how the market's gonna do all year long. So were you saying that these first couple of years of marriage is gonna tell you how you, what your chance of survival is?
R: It's amazing. We can see the seeds of divorce in the first month of marriage when couples are saying, "we are blissfully happy, we will never get divorced". And yet, if they are not handling these things well, if they are not keeping the fun in their relationship and really nurturing their relationship, we can see that it's probably gonna head down on a wrong path.
M: Gail, let's get to some of your tips. Give more than take.
G: You know, it's interesting. My parents told me this all along as I was growing up. If you give each other 80%, you'll both be getting plenty, right? I think about that in my own marriage and I think about that in people I counsel all the time. Give a lot. People always are so concerned about staking out their territory. That doesn't work. Give a lot.
M: Next know how to fight?
G: So important because you can have a little skirmishes, and you will, and those are okay, but if you let them fester, you get the big brouhaha and that'll break up the marrige.
M: And , and show lots of affection that one couple said, "we still hold hands a little bit. Do more than that. Get in there , it will be affectionate. " Right?
G: Absolutely.
R: But we asked couples, you know, "How much affection would you like? Well, would you like to change in your relationship? "And it's amazing how often, both the husbands and wives will say, "I'd like to have more affection. "
G: But it means being"vulnerable", you have to, in order to show each other affection. By the way, the bedroom is a big barometer for what's going on there. There're lots of sexual fights that can end a marriage. Sex is important.
M: And you are gonna follow these 1, 600 people, these 8 hundred couples over the,over the course of 4 years. I would imagine just the evaluation, the process may help a lot these couples coz' they are gonna talk about it.
R: Well, you know, they really like, in general, when we asked couples, they like to participate.
M: Very good. A lot for more. Ron, thank you so much. Gail, thank you very much.
R: Pleasure.
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