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In the world of network television, billions of dollars are at stake, careers are made and crushed. There is turmoil and upheaval, and sometimes reasons to rejoice. That's all before 9 o'clock.
In his new book, Desperate Networks, New York Times' television reporter Bill Carter takes us behind the scenes to reveal the inner workings of the networks, which can be every bit as entertaining as anything you actually see on TV.
[Matt] Bill good morning, good to have you here.
[Bill] Great to be with you Matt.
[Matt] You know the expression that anybody who likes hot dogs and television doesn't want to see what goes into making either one of them. (Sure.) So, so why do you think people are gonna, er, be fascinated by this?
[Bill] Well, I think people, you know, watch a lot of television and they enjoy it and there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that probably they wonder about: How, how did the show start, how did somebody get an idea for this, how did they get on this network rather than a different network? And, you know, I think the, the method of doing that is so crazy and unpredictable that at least it entertains me.
[Matt] And let's talk about that unpredictability, because you've been covering this beat for a long time, you know all the players, but in researching the book, was there something that stood out to surprise you, and what do you think is gonna surprise the reader most?
[Bill] I, I think the thing that surprised me was just how wildly serendipitous success is in television, wildly serendipitous. They spend a fortune on, you know, the best producers and the best writers and all that, but really, a hit show basically falls out of the sky.
[Matt] Use Desperate Housewives as an example, because that's one that everyone has been talking about for a couple of years now.
[Bill] So, so a writer who's washed up, no one will hire him, named Marc Cherry. He, he doesn't know what else to do with his career, so he sits down and write what he thinks would, would be a, such a great script that everyone will like it. Well, he does write a great script, but nobody would pay attention to it, because he has no reputation anymore.
[Matt] And he shopped around everywhere, came to NBC, to CBS…
[Bill] Came to NBC, came to CBS, came to ABC finally at the very end. And other producers looked at it, and only when somebody championed it, somebody. . .
[Matt] And you talk about that a lot in your book, someone has to embrace it.
[Bill] Exactly, un, until that happens, it's just an idea floating among 400 ideas that, that are given to every network every year.
[Matt] And, and you know, you've seen a lot of people second-guess and they say why didn't NBC get that show, why didn't CBS. And you make the point also, had it landed here, it may not have been a hit, because the whole cast of characters (everything) would have been different.
[Bill] Everything could be different. You don't know what night it would be on, you don't know how it would have been cast, etc. I think a show like that probably does transcend the network and probably does work.
[Matt] Also there's some other weird things and you highlight these in the book. You know, ABC has a couple of other big hits, they got Lost and Grey's Anatomy (yeah). The, the people who (yes) were responsible for, in the business what we call green-lighting those shows (right) , were actually on their way to being fired.
[Bill] They, they were fired before those shows ever got into, you know, ever gone on the air. And be, that's just a matter of timing, because they had been failing for so long, it looked like ABC was in a position they'd never get out of it. And what they didn't know was that these 2 people leaving had just given them the 3 of the biggest hits they've had in, you know, 10 years.
[Matt] And, and I'll get into some other examples in a second, but why Desperate Networks, why do you call it that?
[Bill] Well, I think I , I covered basically a 4 , 5-year period and during that time that I covered, each network was desperate in some way, you know. AB, em CBS started, they couldn't have a good...
[Matt] But that's cyclical, isn't it?
[Bill] It is partly cyclical, yes, although I think as time's going on networks are getting more and more pressure, because of all the other entertainment options, and the internet etc. So the desperation level is gonna only be ratcheted up in the future.
[Matt] There, there seems to be this desire and, and need in networks sometimes to tinker, and over-tinker. You, you'd write a story in the book about Friends. (yes) When it was first pitting the idea this whole coffee house, you know that, which became CentralPerk (The name of the coffee house), which became central to the plot of the show. They, the producers in NBC didn't like it.
[Bill] They didn't like it, they, they wanted them to be put into a diner, because the characters in Seinfield run a dinner. (right) They felt, "what?", nobody goes to a coffee shop, let's put them in a diner, like the people in Seinfeld and the producer said, what do you want? Let them run into the characters as in Seinfeld?
[Matt] Let me talk about one of our own. You tell a story about Jeff Zucker. who, who was the producer of this show for a while, went out to take over NBC entertainment, made a suggestion in a meeting one day, that was laughed at, (yes) that everybody thought was a joke, and then started to think about a little bit more. And in some ways that little suggestion based on a McDonalds campaign (exactly) basically changed the landscape.
[Bill] Right, he, he thought they were desp, they were desperate because CBS's putting Survivor on Thursday night, and, and they, how we are gonna go against Survivor? Well, we have Friends's working, Will and Grace's working, and nothing in between, and Jeff said why don't we just super-size the shows, why don't we make them bigger, so that we can get more out of the hit shows, and people said Oh, you can't do that, it's only half an hour, you can't do that. And then he said why, why not, let's do it, and doing that has now changed television because every hit show is stretched into the next time period. American Idol, they stretch all over the place.
[Matt] Right, and I'm glad you bring up American Idol, how long can that last?
[Bill] Er, I would not be able to guess the end 'cause I would have thought, I would have been wrong about this, I would have thought it would've started fading by now, and instead stronger than ever this year.
[Matt] Alright, network news in one year, 3 giants, network news.
[Bill] I'd say 4, if you throw Ted Koppel in there.
[Matt]Ted Koppel, Tom Brokaw, Peter Jennings and Dan Rather. Katie is gonna take over at CBS. I mean how big a shift in network news are we about to see?
[Bill] I think the biggest we've seen certainly in, in the current generation, because every network has to now calculate what the other one is doing, make adjustments and the audience is gonna be sort of thrown up in the air maybe, you know, looking at new alternatives.
[Matt] After writing what you did in the book you are surprised you're here on Today Show?
[Bill] A little bit, you guys have, have always been good to me, and, and I like the show, so...
[Matt] Alright, everything we said here is off the record. (OK) Good to see you.
[Bill] Nice to see you.
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