美国国家公共电台 NPR Former National Guard Chief On What A 2006 Border Deployment Tells Us Today（在线收听）

MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:

President Trump has started filling in the details about his plan to send the National Guard to the U.S.-Mexico border. Trump says he would like to see 2,000 to 4,000 Guard troops sent to back up the U.S. Border Patrol. Now, this has been done before. An even larger deployment happened under President George W. Bush. And that was overseen by my next guest, retired Lieutenant General Steve Blum. He led the National Guard from 2003 to 2008. And General Blum, welcome to the program.

STEVE BLUM: Thank you.

KELLY: Let me ask you the basic question. Is this a good plan, to send troops to the U.S.-Mexico border?

BLUM: Well, frankly, Mary Louise, I don't have enough specifics on what the plan currently is that's being proposed to really make a judgment call on whether it's a good idea or it's a less-than-good idea. But if they clearly define the effects that they want and the tasks that they want the Guard to perform, I have absolutely zero concern that the Guard is not up to the task. They are trained. They are equipped. They're available. They're ready. And they have shown very, very many times in their recent history that they're more than up to this kind of a nuanced task.

KELLY: Let me press you on the tasks that they would be doing. What exactly would the National Guard be doing, if deployed to the U.S.-Mexico border? I mean, just specifically, just - typical day.

BLUM: That has to be clearly defined by the agency that they're supporting. The National Guard will probably be deployed in some arrangement under the Department of Defense, probably will be left under the command and control or - of the governors of the states where they're deployed.

KELLY: But in term...

BLUM: If the list of tasks...

KELLY: Forgive me. In terms of actual - the job that they would be doing, I have read descriptions that include things like repairing fences, you know, rebuilding roads, keeping a lookout with binoculars for people crossing. Is that kind of the typical-type thing that the...

BLUM: Well, that's exactly...

KELLY: ...Border Patrol would do?

BLUM: That - those tasks are among the tasks that we did perform for President Bush. The idea is to free up badges back to the border. In other words, let as many Border Patrol people as possible do their primary job, which is protect our borders and to handle immigrants that do not come into our country through a legal process. And...

KELLY: So you're describing a complementary role here - that in an ideal world, if the Border Patrol is freed up from some of the logistics and support roles, they have more time to focus on actually arresting, detaining, patrolling that border.

BLUM: That's right. And they get more out of the numbers of agents that they actually have because they don't have to do other tasks that are not specifically related to that.

KELLY: Let me turn you to the question of timing. President Trump has said he would like to see the National Guard at the border until his border wall is built, and we don't know when that - when or if that might materialize. What do you think about the very undefined nature of the timeline?

BLUM: I really can't comment on that. Can the Guard stay there for a sustained period of time, or even indefinitely? The answer is yes.

KELLY: We spoke this morning - my colleagues on Morning Edition spoke with Jim Stavridis, retired Navy admiral, former commander of U.S. Southern Command and NATO. And he told us he thinks this is a bad idea. Let me let you listen to why.

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JIM STAVRIDIS: The choice of active-duty military National Guard on that border is an opportunity cost in the sense that we can no longer train and prepare for the actual mission of those troops, which is combat.

KELLY: General Blum, what do you think of that?

BLUM: Without understanding how the National Guard deploys and generates its forces, that's a reasonable concern. However, you have to remember the National Guard almost approaches a half a million people. So when you're talking about 2,000 people out of a half a million people, what Admiral Stavridis talked about...

KELLY: It's a drop in the bucket of total troop size.

BLUM: ...It would affect that 2,000. But it does not affect the ability of the National Guard to provide forces for the federal mission, for the secretary of defense and the president and/or the governors of our states.

KELLY: That's retired Lieutenant General Steve Blum. He led the National Guard from 2003 to 2008, a period that includes, as you heard, the last major deployment of the Guard to the U.S.-Mexico border. General Blum, thanks so much.

BLUM: OK. Thank you.