美国国家公共电台 NPR From Amazon To Walmart, 2020 Candidates Take On Big Corporations By Name（在线收听）

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

All right. Some of the presidential candidates have been calling out brand names as they campaign. Elizabeth Warren wants to break up Amazon, she says. Kamala Harris says McDonald's underpays its workers. Bernie Sanders is addressing Walmart's shareholders at their annual meeting today. Sanders is presenting a proposal on behalf of workers to get representation on the board and also lobbying for a $15-an-hour minimum wage. NPR's Danielle Kurtzleben is covering the 2020 campaign and is in our studios.

Good morning.

DANIELLE KURTZLEBEN, BYLINE: Morning, Steve.

INSKEEP: How does Bernie Sanders get access to a shareholders meeting, which, I think, is a closed universe there, isn't it?

KURTZLEBEN: Right, yeah. I mean, that's a good question because, like his campaign told me, he is not a Walmart shareholder but he will be there on behalf of Cat Davis. She is a Walmart associate. Aside from that, she is a leader of a group that campaigns for worker rights at different retailers, including at Walmart.

INSKEEP: Walmart associate - that means someone who works at Walmart. Is that right?

KURTZLEBEN: Yes.

INSKEEP: OK, go on.

KURTZLEBEN: Absolutely, yeah. She's a Walmart employee. And so he is going to present a proposal on her behalf. She has said, he's my representative for the day. And that proposal, yeah, would say that Walmart has to consider at least hourly workers in adding them to their board, so this could mean Walmart hourly workers being on the Walmart board. Now, this proposal, by the way, just so happens to dovetail with the policy that The Washington Post has reported that Sanders is working on. That proposal would give workers more power at corporations, including seats on their boards. Elizabeth Warren has put out a similar policy, by the way. So this isn't - he's not alone in this. But speaking last week in Nevada, he really called out Walmart. He said this is a preview of his remarks to the Walmart shareholders.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

BERNIE SANDERS: So my message to the Walton family is we are sick and tired of subsidizing you. Pay your workers a living wage.

KURTZLEBEN: Right, so he's talking about more than board representation there. He's also talking about pay.

INSKEEP: Yeah.

KURTZLEBEN: He has a lot of complaints against Walmart.

INSKEEP: Just to be clear, when he says we're sick and tired of subsidizing you, what is he saying there about low-paid workers?

KURTZLEBEN: He's talking about the fact that low-paid workers, even while they may have full-time jobs, may also be on food stamps, for example, using the social safety net that the federal government and state governments provide.

INSKEEP: So he's saying, we're paying for this. That's got to end. He wants to make changes in things such as corporate boards that might change the incentives and change the motivations...

KURTZLEBEN: Right.

INSKEEP: ...Or at least change who has the power at a company.

KURTZLEBEN: Yeah.

INSKEEP: But why would Sanders, among other candidates, be calling out specific companies in this way rather than calling for broader changes in policy?

KURTZLEBEN: Sure. So I mean, leaving aside that, of course, people like Bernie Sanders - Elizabeth Warren is another person, like we've mentioned. They have sincere beliefs that some of these companies are doing wrong. But aside from that, you know, there are a few things. One is that, you know, when you mention a company, especially a name brand...

INSKEEP: Yeah.

KURTZLEBEN: ...Like Amazon, Walmart, Google, Facebook, whatever - companies that people are familiar with - it makes your policy ideas more concrete. So Bernie Sanders talks about the topic of income inequality, which, to a lot of voters, might be a big, nebulous thing. But if Bernie Sanders says, I think that Walmart is contributing to income inequality, that might make it more concrete, more understandable for voters who might shop there, know people who work there, that sort of thing.

INSKEEP: And just in terms of storytelling, you have a villain then, I suppose. Don't you?

KURTZLEBEN: Most definitely, yeah. And you get to be the person who's taking on the man and sticking it to the man kind of.

INSKEEP: Danielle, thanks so much.

KURTZLEBEN: Of course.

INSKEEP: NPR's Danielle Kurtzleben in our studios this morning.

(SOUNDBITE OF YPPAH'S "OCCASIONAL MAGIC")

INSKEEP: And we should mention that a bunch of the companies that we just mentioned - Walmart, Amazon, Google, Facebook, among others - they are among NPR's financial sponsors.

(SOUNDBITE OF YPPAH'S "OCCASIONAL MAGIC")