美国国家公共电台 NPR 特朗普炮轰马克龙北约"脑死亡"言论 北约成员国间矛盾日益尖锐（在线收听）

Leaders from NATO's 29 member countries are meeting in London this morning. For 70 years, U.S. leadership has been at the core of NATO, but President Trump has questioned the value of the alliance. And so of course, many people are wondering what he will say on this trip.

NPR White House correspondent Tamara Keith is in London. She's with us now. Hey, Tam.

TAMARA KEITH, BYLINE: Hi.

KING: So in a couple of hours, President Trump is going to meet with France's president, Emmanuel Macron. Now, this meeting is notable and potentially awkward because just yesterday the Trump administration said the U.S. might impose tariffs on some French products. What is this dispute about?

KEITH: Right. Awkward is the right word for how this meeting might go.

(LAUGHTER)

KEITH: The U.S. trade representative is saying that France's digital services tax discriminates against American tech giants — companies like Google, Apple, Amazon, Facebook. So in response, the administration wants to impose tariffs — 100% tariffs on $2.4 billion worth of French imports. And of course, because this is a trade war, they are targeting things like champagne and blue cheese. President Trump was asked about it during what became a very extended Q&A — about 50 minutes of Q&A. And here's what he said.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Emmanuel had an idea — let's tax those companies. Well, they're American companies. I'm not going to let people take advantage of American companies. Because if anyone's going to take advantage of the American companies, it's going to be us. It's not going to be France.

KEITH: It's not clear what he means about wanting to take advantage of American companies. But the message is clear that he doesn't want France imposing taxes on U.S. tech giants.

KING: Ultimately, Tam, this summit is about NATO and the member countries. And you know, the reason that people are keeping such a close eye on this is that there are strains in this alliance right now. Right?

KEITH: Absolutely. There are two major fissures at the moment. One is Turkey. Turkish President Erdogan, this morning, said that he wanted NATO to designate the YPG — these are Syrian Kurdish allies of the United States — wants them designated as a terrorist organization. And he's saying that if NATO doesn't do that, he won't support NATO's defense plans for Poland and the Baltic States against Russia. Another issue with Turkey is that it has purchased missile systems from Russia, which is making the rest of the NATO alliance very uncomfortable.

And then there's France. Macron recently said that NATO was brain-dead due to a lack of leadership and direction. Now, President Trump himself, as you mentioned, has been critical of the alliance in the past, calling it obsolete. But now President Trump is hitting back against Macron and saying that he shouldn't be saying that about NATO.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

TRUMP: But I think nobody needs it more than France. And that's why I think that when France makes a statement like they made about NATO, it's a very dangerous statement for them to make.

KEITH: He says that by saying this, France is insulting 28 other countries. It's sort of a fascinating reversal...

KING: Yes.

KEITH: ...For a president who, for so long, was so critical of NATO. But you know, Trump, as with many things, sort of is claiming that he's made NATO great again.

KING: Even as President Trump is in London making those claims, in Washington, the House is moving in head — ahead with the impeachment inquiry. Has he mentioned that on this trip at all?

KEITH: Well, he's certainly been asked about it. And he is — he's saying that it's very unpatriotic of Democrats and very bad for our country, he said — continues to call it a hoax. He was asked about what he thought of the idea of censure instead of impeachment — one of the ideas that's been floated. And he says, why would anybody censure me? I've done nothing wrong. You can't have censure if you have a perfect phone call. So President Trump is holding firm and saying that it is not a distraction, though certainly he's being asked about it.

KING: Just quickly — next week, Great Britain holds elections. The British prime minister, Boris Johnson, has asked President Trump to stay out of it. Will he?

KEITH: Well, he has sort of stayed out of it. He says that he has no thoughts on it, that he will stay out of it. But then he also said that Boris is very capable and he'll do a good job. He was asked about Jeremy Corbyn, and Trump said, I know nothing about the guy.

KING: OK. There we go. NPR White House correspondent Tamara Keith in London. Tam, thanks so much.

KEITH: You're welcome.

今天上午，北约组织29个成员国的领导人齐聚伦敦召开会议。70年来，美国领导力一直是北约的核心，但特朗普总统曾对该联盟的价值提出质疑。当然，许多人想知道他此行会有何表态。

NPR新闻驻白宫记者塔玛拉·基思现在在伦敦。她将和我们连线。你好，塔姆。

塔玛拉·基思连线：你好。

金：几个小时之后，特朗普总统将和法国总统埃马纽埃尔·马克龙举行会谈。这场会谈引人注目，同时可能也会有些尴尬，因为特朗普政府昨天刚刚宣布，美国可能对部分法国产品征收关税。这一争端是怎么回事？

基思：对。尴尬可能是最适合描述这场会谈的词汇。

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基思：美国贸易代表说，法国征收数字服务税的做法是对谷歌、苹果、亚马逊和脸谱网等美国科技巨头的歧视。作为回应，特朗普政府计划对价值24亿美元的法国进口产品征收100%的关税。当然，由于这是一场贸易战，因此美国针对的产品涉及香槟和蓝纹奶酪。特朗普在持续约50分钟的问答环节中被问及这一问题，显然这一环节延长了很长时间。下面是特朗普所说。

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唐纳德·特朗普总统：埃马纽埃尔的想法是，我们对这些公司征税吧。被征税的是美国企业。我不会让别人利用美国公司。因为如果有人要利用美国企业，那会是我们。而不是法国。

基思：目前并不清楚他说想利用美国企业是什么意思。但他传递的信息很明确：他不希望法国对美国科技巨头征税。

金：塔姆，从根本上说，这是北约及其成员国的峰会。外界密切关注这场峰会的原因是，目前北约内部关系紧张。对吧？

基思：没错。现在有两大主要分歧点。其一与土耳其有关。土耳其总统埃尔多安今天上午表示，他希望北约将YPG列为恐怖组织，YPG是美国在叙利亚库尔德的盟友。埃尔多安说，如果北约不这样做，他就不会支持北约在波兰和波罗的海诸国对抗俄罗斯的防御计划。另一个涉及土耳其的问题是，该国从俄罗斯购买了导弹系统，这令北约联盟其他成员国难以接受。

还有法国。马克龙最近表示，由于缺乏领导和方向，北约已经脑死亡。如你所说，特朗普总统曾批评北约，称其已经过时。但现在，特朗普总统回击了马克龙的言论，称马克龙不应该这样评价北约。

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特朗普：但我认为没有国家比法国更需要北约。所以，在法国对北约做出那种评价时，我才会认为这是非常危险的言论。

基思：他说，法国这样说是在侮辱其他28个北约成员国。这真是不可思议的反转……

金：对。

基思：特朗普曾经一直在指责北约。但现在，和对许多问题的评论一样，他称他令北约再次伟大。

金：就在特朗普总统在伦敦发表这些言论时，众议院仍在华盛顿继续推进弹劾调查。总统有在此行中提到过这件事吗？

基思：当然，他有被问及这个问题。他称民主党人极为不爱国，这对我们国家极为有害，他依然称之为骗局。他并没有被问及弹劾调查，而是被问到遭抨击一事，这是一直存在的观点。他说，为什么有人要抨击我？我没有做错任何事。如果进行了一场完美的通话，是不能被责难的。因此，特朗普总统立场坚定，他称这不会令他分心，不过他的确有被问到相关问题。

金：还有个小问题，下周英国将举行选举。英国首相鲍里斯·约翰逊已经要求特朗普总统不要干涉英国大选。总统会听吗？

基思：可以说他已经远离了英国大选。他说他没有这种想法，他不会干预英国大选。之后他还表示，鲍里斯非常有能力，他会出色地完成工作。在被问及杰里米·科尔宾时，特朗普说我对他一无所知。

金：好。到此为止。以上是NPR驻白宫记者塔玛拉·基思从伦敦带来的报道。塔姆，非常谢谢你。

基思：不客气。