PBS高端访谈:了解一下电影《被抹去的男孩》（在线收听）

JUDY WOODRUFF: Our fall film series continues tonight with a movie tackling the controversial topic of gay conversion therapy. Jeffrey Brown has our look.

JEFFREY BROWN: Boy Erased is the story of just that.

LUCAS HEDGES, Actor: I think it's true about me.

JEFFREY BROWN: Efforts by fundamentalist Christian parents to have their son's sexual orientation erased through so-called gay conversion therapy. Nicole Kidman stars as the mother, Nancy Eamons. Fellow Australian Russell Crowe is her preacher husband, Marshall.

RUSSELL CROWE, Actor: With my beliefs, I may have set myself up to lose you.

JEFFREY BROWN: On learning that their son, played by actor Lucas Hedges, is gay, they force him into a kind of reprogramming treatment facility aimed at changing his sexuality and behavior, an attempt, in their eyes, to move him out of sin.

ACTOR: Now, this may be the toughest, but most rewarding 12 days that many of you will ever face. But we have just one task, to bring ourselves back to God.

JEFFREY BROWN: Gay conversion therapy has been widely discredited by mainstream psychologists, but is still practiced. This account is based on a memoir by 33-year-old Garrard Conley.

GARRARD CONLEY, Author, Boy Erased: I wanted to show how this was a cultural moment that was part of a larger, you know, kind of bigotry that's in the country.

JEFFREY BROWN: It took 10 years and distance from his family for Conley to begin writing.

GARRARD CONLEY: Especially in memoir, it's incredibly important to paint characters, instead of caricatures. So, I never wanted to approach any of the characters in it, you know, my mom or my dad, or even the counselors or the other people there at the camp with me, I didn't want to paint them with a heavy brush.

RUSSELL CROWE: We cannot see a way that you can live under this roof if you're going to fundamentally go against God.

GARRARD CONLEY: Almost every aspect of growing up in that town felt controlled in some way. The church is sort of the central place where everyone gathers together. This is what you do. This is what you say. My father used to walk out of movie theaters if someone cursed.

JOEL EDGERTON, Director, Boy Erased: At first, it was about like looking into a window of somebody else's life that was, that was kind of diabolical. And it was all about institutionalized, religious prison. I can take care of you.

JEFFREY BROWN: Joel Edgerton, known for many recent roles, including his portrayal of the husband in the film Loving, here plays the head of the conversion clinic. He also directed the film and wrote the screenplay.

JOEL EDGERTON: What I found out in the book was this incredibly hopeful story about one person struggling. Garrard's story was so full of empathy, considering what he had gone through.

JEFFREY BROWN: A high school athlete with a girlfriend, in the film, Jared abruptly leaves college to comply with his family's wish. You thought it was right to go to conversion therapy.

GARRARD CONLEY: Yes, I mean, it's hard to, like, tack it down to one reason why I went to conversion therapy. A really terrible outing experience happened. You know, my father put a lot of pressure on me, and I was really afraid of losing God. You know, that was the closest relationship I ever had. Every day, almost to the hour, I would pray to God. So that was a terrifying idea, that, you know, somehow I was going to lose God just by being who I am. It felt like there was no other choice.

JOEL EDGERTON: Duress, I would call it.

GARRARD CONLEY: Yes.

JEFFREY BROWN: Duress that continues through the weeks Jared attempts to convert.

JOEL EDGERTON: Where is all this anger coming?

LUCAS HEDGES: Because you're making me angry.

GARRARD CONLEY: I think conversion therapy operated as a sort of intense come-to-Jesus moment where there's something really wrong here,

because, every day, the same hatred and self-hatred is being peddled to me. And, you know, how is that connected to God or to Jesus? I don't get that.

LUCAS HEDGES: God and the devil are having a bet over me, that one day God will let me in on the experiment he was having to test me.

JEFFREY BROWN: Boy Erased exposes some of the most painful aspects of conversion therapy.

JOEL EDGERTON: Some of the most exposing scenes, for instance, is hearing Sarah having to stand up and read off a piece of paper a sexual act. What straight person has to ever go through that, unless they're being cruel to another human being?

JEFFREY BROWN: Right, confessing their...

JOEL EDGERTON: Confessing in court, for example. But I never go to a job interview or an audition, and what happens to me in my sex life becomes an issue inside the room.

JEFFREY BROWN: The real-life Garrard Conley's experience happened 14 years ago. He left his home and now lives in New York as a gay man.

GARRARD CONLEY: A lot of people, you know, that I have encountered on my book tour, for example, they say, how is this still happening in 2018? And they believe that progress is a straight line and that we're already there. And it's just not true.

NICOLE KIDMAN, Actress: I love God and I love my son. For your father, it's a little more complicated.

GARRARD CONLEY: I mean, it is just so obvious that people are still struggling all over, and not just in the U.S., all over the world. And the effects of conversion therapy have traveled all over the world.

JEFFREY BROWN: Boy Erased is in select theaters now and opening nationwide soon. For the PBS NewsHour, I'm Jeffrey Brown at the Toronto International Film Festival.

朱迪·伍德拉夫：今晚还是来聊聊今年秋天的电影，其中有一部电影的主题备受争议，与同性恋矫正疗法有关。下面请听我台记者杰弗里·布朗发回的详细报道。

杰弗里·布朗：《被抹去的男孩》就是一部这样的电影。

卢卡斯·赫奇斯，演员：我觉得这对我来说是很真实的。

杰弗里·布朗：信奉正统派基督教的父母付出了巨大努力，想让他们的儿子改变性取向，方式是所谓的同性恋矫正疗法。尼科尔·基德曼在片中饰演一位同性恋男孩的母亲南希·伊梦斯。澳大利亚演员罗素·克洛饰演她的丈夫马歇尔。

罗素·克洛，演员：要是我按照自己的信仰来行事，那我可能会放弃你。

杰弗里·布朗：他们的儿子由卢卡斯·赫奇斯饰演。在夫妻俩得知儿子是同性恋之后，他们强迫儿子去一家经过改造的治疗所，目的是让儿子改变性取向和性行为，他们认为这样做是为了让儿子脱离罪恶。

演员：这可能很难受，但却是你们很多人生命中最宝贵的12天。但我们只有一项任务——让自己能被上帝所接受。

杰弗里·布朗：同性恋矫正疗法虽然不为主流心理学家所认可，但还依然存在。这是33岁的加勒德·康利回忆录中的陈述。

加勒德·康利，作家，《被抹去的男孩》：我想展现这一文化片段，但这背后是整个国家更大范围内的固执。

杰弗里·布朗：他耗时10年的时间，不惜与家人疏远，才得以开始创作这本书。

加勒德·康利：尤其是回忆录这样的题材里，刻画人物而非以漫画形式呈现人物就变得极为重要。因此，我从来不想去接触其中的任何一位演员，不管是我的父亲母亲，还是矫正所里的指导老师等。我不想重笔墨地展现他们。

罗素·克洛：如果你跟上帝相违背的话，你就不能做这个家庭的一员。

加勒德·康利：在那个城镇里，与成长有关的方方面面都在某个方面受到了约束。教堂是大家聚集的的核心地点。大家说话做事要有固定的方式。每次电影院里有人发出咒骂声的时候，我爸爸都会愤然离席。

乔尔·埃哲顿，导演，《被抹去的男孩》：一开始，就像是从窗户里窥探别人的生活，有点邪恶。这种现象已经司空见惯，这个小镇就像是用宗教控制住的监狱一样。我能照顾你。

杰弗里·布朗：乔尔·埃哲顿因很多最近出现在荧屏上的形象而为人所知，比如他在《爱恋》中塑造的丈夫形象。在这部电影里，他饰演的是同性恋矫正所的负责人。此外，他还执导了这部电影，并写了剧本。

乔尔·埃哲顿：我在这本书中发现了一个人挣扎的走向希望的故事。加勒德·康利的故事总是很有代入感，这也跟他的个人经历有关。

杰弗里·布朗：影片中的杰瑞德是一名高中生，有女朋友。但他突然离开学校，只为遵从家人的意愿。你会觉得进入同性恋矫正是正确的选择。

加德·康利：是的，我觉得很难将我去同性恋矫正的事归结为一个原因。曾经发生过一次非常糟糕的远足经历。你知道吗？我父亲给我施加了很大的压力，我真地很害怕无颜面对上帝。这是我平生里根人关系最亲近的一次。每天，甚至每个小时，我都会向上帝祈祷。这种想法让我很害怕——如果我坚持做自己，就会失去上帝。似乎我已经别无他选了。

乔尔·埃哲顿：我觉得是一种强迫。

加德·康利：是的。

杰弗里·布朗：强迫感压抑着杰瑞德，他想打破这一切。

乔尔·埃哲顿：你的怒气是从何而来呢？

卢卡斯·赫奇斯：因为你让我感到愤怒。

加德·康利：我觉得同性恋矫正疗法就像是一剂猛药，让人能够直面上帝，正视错误。因为每天，同样的仇恨和自我仇视都在包裹着我。但你知道这种感觉是怎样和上帝或者基督联系在一起的吗？我实在不懂。

卢卡斯·赫奇斯：上帝和魔鬼在我身上打了个赌，他们赌某一天上帝会让我加入一个实验，来考验。

杰弗里·布朗：《被抹去的男孩》揭露了同性恋矫正所让人痛苦的方面。

乔尔·埃哲顿：比如，其中一些镜头可见一斑——听到萨拉被勒令站起身来，从一张纸上读出属于性行为的地方。什么样的人要经历这样的事情，难道他对别人这样心狠手辣过？

杰弗里·布朗：是的，坦白他们的……

乔尔·埃哲顿：比如，在法庭上坦白一切。但我从来没有面试过工作，我在性生活中经历的一切都成了不为人所知的事情。

杰弗里·布朗：康利在现实生活中的经历发生在14年前。他离开了家，现在生活在纽约，可以坦白自己是一名同性恋。

加德·康利：我遇到的很多人，比如我的读者们，会疑惑为什么这种事情在2018年依然存在。他们觉得进步是沿着直线走的，而我们已经实现了大跨步。但事实并非如此。

尼科尔·基德曼，女演员：我爱上帝，我也爱自己的儿子。对于你父亲来说，感受就更复杂些。

加德·康利：显然，世界各地都有人在挣扎着，不只是美国。同性恋矫正疗法的影响在全世界也都存在着。

杰弗里·布朗：《被抹去的男孩》在部分影院已经上映，不久后将在全国上映。感谢收听杰弗里·布朗从多伦多国际电影节发回的《新闻一小时》报道。