PBS高端访谈:沙特女性终于上路了（在线收听）

JOHN YANG: But first: Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world that forbids women from driving. But this Sunday marks a milestone, when that prohibition ends. Nick Schifrin looks at the state of women's rights in the kingdom and the long and winding road to allow females behind the wheel.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Whenever Manal Al-Sharif drives, she feels free. But in her home in Saudi Arabia, what looks routine has represented resistance.

MANAL AL-SHARIF, Author, "Daring to Drive" (through translator): You will find a woman with a Ph.D., a professor at a college, and she doesn't know how to drive. We want change in this country.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Since the 1950s, Saudi Arabia has banned women from driving. Activists broke barriers and religious custom posting driving videos to YouTube. For women, driving is dignity, Al-Sharif told Jeffrey Brown last year.

MANAL AL-SHARIF: It gives them sense of liberty and freedom. And that breaks all the things that have been learned and brainwashed with, that we are, have to be obedient to these unjust laws, and we're weak.

NICK SCHIFRIN: The protest movement started in the early 1990s.

MAN (singing): No woman, no drive. No woman, no drive.

NICK SCHIFRIN: And even included male comedians spoofing Bob Marley on women needing drivers.

MAN (singing): I remember when you used to sit in the family car, but backseat.

NICK SCHIFRIN: But it's backseat no longer. This month, Saudi women learned the rules of the road from a former race car driver. And a small number of women have already received driver's licenses, as seen in this government-produced video. Female drivers means more female workers, says Saudi embassy spokesperson Fatimah Baeshen.

FATIMAH BAESHEN, Spokesperson, Embassy of Saudi Arabia: Driving was a very tangible barrier for women entering the work force. And so allowing women to drive is really a green light, pun intended, for women to kind of come into the work force and commercially and economically contribute.

NICK SCHIFRIN: The effort's spearheaded by 32-year-old Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. In the last few years, women have earned the right to vote and run for office in local elections and attend moves and sports games, part of a larger Vision 2030 plan.

FATIMAH BAESHEN: When we talk about Vision 2030 and transforming the economy and developing the society in a way that really pivots the country's trajectory, it allows kind of normalizing women entering into the public space.

NICK SCHIFRIN: But critics say this seemingly modern U.S. ally is stuck in the past, and using women drivers is a Mohammed bin Salman P.R. stunt to get Western attention and investment, says London School of Economics Professor Madawi Al-Rasheed.

MADAWI AL-RASHEED, London School of Economics: He needs Western capital and Western expertise. And, therefore, putting a soft, beautiful face behind the wheel may just do it for him.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Last month, many of the very women whose activism made the change possible were arrested and accused of undermining Saudi security, part of a larger crackdown on Mohammed bin Salman's critics.

MADAWI AL-RASHEED: Poets, journalists, intellectuals, lawyers, professionals, almost, and even his own cousins and his own relatives, they had a taste of his repression.

NICK SCHIFRIN: And what's not changing this weekend: Saudi women still need a male guardian's permission to travel, get married, even open a bank account. This society is still restrictive and still has no representative government.

MADAWI AL-RASHEED: To think that Saudi Arabia is going to be reformed without political change is actually a myth. It's not gonna happen. Women's rights are part of a bundle of rights, and these rights are political rights.

NICK SCHIFRIN: In response for her activism, Manal Al-Sharif was jailed and labeled a prostitute. But she's still working to change Saudi society.

MANAL AL-SHARIF: Speaking up, I have never regretted that, because if I didn't speak up, I would lose myself.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Lifting the driving ban will provide Saudi women unprecedented autonomy, but activists say the road to freedom is still blocked. For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Nick Schifrin.

约翰·杨：但首先：沙特阿拉伯是世界上唯一禁止妇女开车的国家。但本周日这一禁令遭到打破，为此树立了里程碑。尼克·西夫林看这个王国中妇女权利状况以及允许妇女驾车背后漫长而曲折的道路。

尼克·西夫林：无论马里亚尔·谢里夫何时驾起车来，她都感到自由自在。但在她的家乡沙特阿拉伯，看起来很普通的事情代表一种抵抗。

马里亚尔·谢里夫，《勇于驾驶》的作者（通过翻译）：你会找到这样一个女人：她拥有博士学位，身为大学教授，却不知道如何开车。我们要改变这个国家。

尼克·西夫林：自20世纪50年代起，沙特阿拉伯开始禁止妇女驾车。活动家们打破了种种障碍和宗教习俗，在YouTube上发布视频。对妇女来说，驾驶是有尊严的，马里亚尔·谢里夫去年告诉杰弗里·布朗。

马里亚尔·谢里夫：这让她们感觉自由自在。这打破了之前她们学到和被洗脑的所有东西，一直以来我们必须服从这些不公正的法律，我们是软弱的。

尼克·西夫林：抗议运动始于20世纪90年代初。

男人（歌唱）：没有妇女，没有驾驶。没有妇女，没有驾驶。

尼克·西夫林：甚至包括男性喜剧演员鲍勃·马利也对妇女需要司机一事也进行了滑稽的模仿。

男人（歌唱）：我记得你以前坐在家中的汽车上，但在后座。

尼克·西夫林：但是现在不再是坐在后座了。本月，一名前赛车手教授沙特妇女学习交通规则。如在这个政府制作的视频中看到的，现在已有少数妇女拿到了驾照。沙特大使馆发言人法蒂·玛贝森说，女性司机意味着更多的女工。

法蒂·玛贝森，沙特阿拉伯大使馆发言人：驾驶是妇女进入劳动力市场一个非常明显的障碍。因此，允许妇女驾车真正是一个绿色信号，这个双关语意味着让女性进入劳动力市场，在商业和经济上做出贡献。

尼克·西夫林：这个努力由32岁的王储穆罕默德·本·萨勒曼率先领导。在过去的几年里，妇女获得了当地的选举权和竞选权，被获准参加运动和体育运动，这是实现更大愿景，2030年计划的一部分。

法蒂·玛贝森：我们谈论2030年愿景，改革经济和社会发展，它们真正是国家发展轨道的中枢，我们以这种方式去谈论它，它使得妇女可以正常进入公共空间。

尼克·西夫林：但是批评人士说，看似现代的美国盟友被困在了过去，而启用女性司机是穆罕默德·本·萨勒曼的伎俩，以博得西方的关注和投资，伦敦经济学院教授马达维拉·拉希德说。

马达维拉·拉希德，伦敦经济学院：他需要西方资本和西方专家。因此，让一张柔软、漂亮的脸蛋驾车，可能对他有好处。

尼克·西夫林：上个月，许多行动积极的妇女遭到逮捕并被指控破坏了沙特安全，这也是穆罕默德·本·萨勒曼对批评人士更大规模的镇压。

马达维拉·拉希德：诗人、记者、知识分子、律师、专业人士，几乎，甚至他自己的表亲和他自己的亲戚，都尝到了他镇压的苦头。

尼克·西夫林：这个周末情况还没有发生什么变化：沙特妇女仍然需要男性监护人的允许才能旅行，结婚，甚至开设银行账户。这个社会仍然是有限制性的，仍然缺乏代表性的政府。

马达维拉·拉希德：认为沙特阿拉伯将在没有政治变革的情况下，进行改革实际上是一个神话。这是不会发生的。妇女权利是各种权利的一部分，这些权利是政治权利。

尼克·西夫林：作为对她行动主义的回应，马里亚尔·谢里夫被判入狱，并被标示为妓女。但她仍在努力改变沙特社会。

马里亚尔·谢里夫：说出来，我从来没有后悔过，因为如果我不说话，就会失去自我。

尼克·西夫林：解除驾驶禁令将为沙特妇女提供前所未有的自治权，但活动人士说，通往自由的道路仍然充满阻碍。PBS新闻一小时，我是尼克·西夫林。