PBS高端访谈:泰国救援是如何展开的（在线收听）

JUDY WOODRUFF: Now to the daunting and incredible rescue of a dozen boys who were trapped with their soccer coach in a flooded cave complex in Thailand. The rescue was completed against very difficult odds today, 18 days after the group was first trapped. It took dozens of divers and hundreds of volunteers from around the world. William Brangham will be here in a moment with more about the heroic rescue, but first this report from Thailand by John Irvine of Independent Television News.

JOHN IRVINE: He was in good hands. This is the best view we have had of any of the courageous 13 and the rescue mission that's captivated the world. We could make out two drips attached, a neck brace, and a blue hood to protect his eyes from the daylight. With gentle care, medics and soldiers stretchered the child to his airlift. The Thai army helicopter that had been waiting all day had room for a second boy as well. Identified only by their escape numbers, these teammates being flown out of here were 10 and 11. Their ability to survive and the daring of others have saved the lives of the Wild Boar football team of Chiang Rai. Any lingering fears that the worst might still happen were banished by the sight of ambulances ferrying 12 and 13. After 18 days, incredibly, all were free. At a news conference soon afterwards, the man in charge was applauded by the world's media. In turn, the regional governor thanked the world for helping make it happen. From the Thai divers involved down to ordinary people, this is a country relieved, overjoyed and grateful in equal measure. They spent 10 days alone cut off from an outside world they must have feared would never find them. There were five of the team left to free today and, like those who had gone before, asked to dive for their lives. The back four and their coach never wavered.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: To better understand just what a feat this rescue was, I'm joined now by The New York Times' John Ismay, who wrote about the rescue, but was himself also a former diver for the U.S. Navy who did deep sea and salvage missions. Welcome to the "NewsHour."

JOHN ISMAY, The New York Times: Thanks for having me.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: So, take me back. When you first heard about these boys being trapped in this cave, being so young, being not able to swim, what was your reaction?

JOHN ISMAY: I thought they were all going to die.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Really?

JOHN ISMAY: Absolutely.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Is that just because you thought there's no way we are going to be able to get them out in time?

JOHN ISMAY: Yes, pretty much. If you think about it, what they did was, instead of diving in a pool, which is safe, a controlled environment, which is where most people do their first scuba dive...

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Just to learn to do it.

JOHN ISMAY: Exactly. They did it in the most hazardous place imaginable, which is a cave. Cave diving is so dangerous that no military unit that I'm aware of actively practices that mission.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Just they don't even train for it?

JOHN ISMAY: No. The risks are so great, that the rewards don't outweigh that.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: So what is it about cave diving in particular that's different, say, than the ocean or a lake, or what makes it so difficult?

JOHN ISMAY: The biggest thing is, you have no free access to the surface. So if you get into trouble, if your equipment malfunctions or if, say, you were to panic, which happens to some people, you just can't dump the weights out of your vest and bolt to the surface, which could kill you, but also you could still live through that. But, in a cave, you just simply have to get out in order to survive.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Just because it's a hard rock ceiling. There literally is no surface where there is air.

JOHN ISMAY: Exactly. Exactly.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: So, can you walk us through as simply as possible how you understand that these Thai divers got these boys out?

JOHN ISMAY: My understanding is that the Thai navy divers from a Thai SEAL team were able to rig a static line along the way that provided some navigational stability for the divers as they made their way through.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: This is like a guide rope from start to end, and you just sort of pull yourself along by it?

JOHN ISMAY: Exactly. Yes, absolutely, because, if you think about it, there's going to be mud and dirt in that cave. And when it's filled with water, that just becomes completely murky, really low to zero visibility. Even using a flash light, even a powerful one, you might not be able to see really at all. I mean, I have been in situations where I have held a light up to my dive mask and barely seen a glow, because it's so murky.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Really?

JOHN ISMAY: So, really, you're doing everything by touch and feel, which, for military divers, is pretty standard. It's not diving in warm, clear water. The usual thing is cold, murky water for long periods of time. So these people were well set up for that. The hard part was getting in and out. For the kids, I can easily imagine it being terrifying. Or they could have seen it as an adventure. I don't know.

Either way, the hazard was immense and the hazard was real. It would be important to keep the children calm as much as possible to get them through each stage of the cave exit.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: It's nice to be able to report good news every now and then.

JOHN ISMAY: Absolutely.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: John Ismay of The New York Times, thank you very much.

JOHN ISMAY: Thank you very much.

朱蒂·伍德拉夫：现在，在泰国，十几个男孩和他们的足球教练被困在一个被水淹没的洞穴建筑群中，令人畏惧，令人难以置信。尽管困难重重，但今天救援任务终于得以完成，而今天距离他们首次被困已有18天。来自世界各地的数十名潜水员及数百名志愿者参与了此次救援行动。关于此次英雄救援行动，威廉·布朗汉姆将在这里与我们分享更多内容，但首先让我们来听一听来自独立电视新闻的约翰·欧文从泰国发来的报道。

约翰·欧文：他受到了很好的照料。对于这13名勇敢的被困人员及此次救援任务，这是我们所看到最好的事情，而此次救援任务也吸引了来自全球的目光。我们可以制作出两个装备：一个颈托和一个蓝色的罩子，来保护他的眼睛免受日光照射。在温柔的照料下，医务人员和士兵们扶着这个孩子乘上了他的飞机。泰国军用直升机一整天也随时待命，准备迎接第二名被救出的男孩。救援人员为他们每人设置了逃生编号，而现在正被救出的是10号和11号。他们的生存能力以及救援者的勇敢挽救了清莱野猪足球队队员的生命。看到正被救护车运送的12号和13号，我们终于放下了那悬着的心，此前我们一直担心最坏的情况可能仍会发生。令人难以置信的是，经过18天，所有被困人员最终全部获救。此后不久即召开了新闻发布会，此次救援行动的负责人受到了国内外媒体的热烈盛赞。相应地，该地区的政府也感谢世界各国为救援行动最终的胜利所做出的贡献。整个泰国，从潜水员到普通人，同样都松了一口气，大家喜出望外，感激不尽。他们与外界隔绝，长达10天之久，此前他们一定害怕，外界再也无法找到他们。今天球队中已有5人可以自由行动，而他们就像那些曾经入洞的人一样，请求潜水去营救他们。他们四次返回，而他们的教练从未有过动摇。

威廉·布朗汉姆：为了更好地了解此次救援壮举，我现在连线《纽约时报》的约翰·伊斯梅，伊斯梅撰写了有关本次救援行动的文章，而他自己也是美国海军的前潜水员，曾执行过深海及打捞任务。欢迎来到“新闻一小时”。

约翰·伊斯梅，《纽约时报》：谢谢您的邀请。

威廉·布朗汉姆：那么，带我回看一下整个事件。当你刚听说这些男孩被困在这个山洞里，年纪那么小，还不会游泳时，你是什么反应？

约翰·伊斯梅：我以为他们都会丧命。

威廉·布朗汉姆：真的？

约翰·伊斯梅：没错。

威廉·布朗汉姆：是不是因为你认为，我们根本无法及时将他们营救出去？

约翰·伊斯梅：是的，如果你考虑一下，他们可不是在游泳池中潜水，那很安全，是可控的环境，也就是大多数人完成第一次潜水的地方…

威廉·布朗汉姆：学着去潜。

约翰·伊斯梅：没错。他们是在一个洞穴中潜水，这是我们所能想象的最危险的地方。在洞穴中潜水极度危险，以至于我所知道的任何军事团体都没有执行这个任务。

威廉·布朗汉姆：他们甚至没有经过任何洞穴潜水的训练？

约翰·伊斯梅：是的。风险太大，回报难抵。

威廉·布朗汉姆：那么与在海洋中或湖泊中潜水，在洞穴中潜水有何特别之处，或者在洞穴中潜水如此困难的原因是什么？

约翰·伊斯梅：最大的不同在于，你无法随时潜出水面。因此，如果你遇到麻烦，如果你的设备发生故障，或者说，如果你发生恐慌，某些人会发生这种情况，你就是无法将负重从你的背心中甩出，并用螺栓固定在其表面上，你就会有生命危险，但你也可能幸存。但是，在一个山洞里，你只有出去才不会死。

威廉·布朗汉姆：因为有一个坚硬的岩石天花板挡着。根本没有水面，没有空气。

约翰·伊斯梅：没错，没错。

威廉·布朗汉姆：那么，您能否尽可能简单地告诉我们，对于这些泰国潜水员对这些男孩实施救援，您是如何理解的？

约翰·伊斯梅：我的理解是，来自泰国海豹突击队的泰国海军潜水员能够沿着这条路线布设一条静态绳索，为潜水员的潜行，提供了一定的稳定性。

威廉·布朗汉姆：从开始到结束，这就像一条引导绳，你只要拉着它，就能向前走？

约翰·伊斯梅：是的。是的，绝对，因为，如果你考虑一下，那个洞里就会有泥土和污垢。当它充满水时，它变得完全模糊，能见度真正低到零。即使使用闪光灯，即使是强光闪光灯，您也可能根本无法看到路。我的意思是，我一直处在这样的情况下，我已经将安装在自己潜水面罩上的灯打亮了，但几乎看不到发光，因为它是如此模糊。

威廉·布朗汉姆：真的？

约翰·伊斯梅：所以，真的，你通过触摸和感觉做所有事情，对于军事潜水员来说，这是非常标准的动作。这可不是在温暖清澈的水中潜水。而是长时间待在又冷又浑的水中。所以这些人都为此做好了准备。而进出洞穴很困难。对于孩子们来说，我很容易想象，这很可怕。或者他们可以把它视为一次冒险。我不知道。无论哪种方式，危险是巨大的，危险是真实的。重要的是让孩子们尽可能地保持冷静，让他们在到达洞穴出口之前，安全经过每个阶段。

威廉·布朗汉姆：能够不时地报道出好消息，真的很高兴。

约翰·伊斯梅：是的。

威廉·布朗汉姆：来自《纽约时报》的约翰·伊斯梅，非常感谢。

约翰·伊斯梅：非常感谢。