PBS高端访谈:特朗普政府就燃料标准与加州对峙（在线收听）

Stewart: Until this past Thursday, U.S. automakers were preparing to design vehicles that would average 50 miles per gallon by the year 2025. The standard was set by Obama-era regulations designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. But now, the E.P.A. And the national highway traffic safety administration have announced a proposal to roll back the requirements. Opposition is coming not only from environmental groups but from states and, surprisingly, from some automakers themselves. Timothy Puko of the Wall Street Journal joins us now from Washington, D.C., for more. Tim, so, this proposal has a correlation... suggests a correlation between the fuel efficiency, the cost of the vehicle and the safety of the vehicle. What does this proposal allege?

Timothy Puko: Well, the trump administration is saying that if you put standards on fuel efficiency that are too high, it's gonna make cars that are too expensive, and people aren't going to buy them. And if they don't buy the newest, safest cars, then they don't have the best fuel efficiency and they don't have the best safety standards. They're essentially saying that the estimates for, you know, air quality, carbon emission improvements that the Obama administration predicted, forecast, aren't anything to come true because people aren't going to buy the types of cars they need to buy to make it happen.

Stewart: Who lobbied the administration for this?

Timothy Puko: Well, in the beginning, the automakers did. There was a vast change in consumer preference. Once oil prices fell and then gasoline prices fell, people were buying more trucks and more S.U.V.S again, and the automakers very, you know, forcefully, very openly said, you know, we don't think we're going to meet these mandates. In fact, in the past year, they fell a little bit short of what the Obama-era requirements mandated for them. So, they asked basically for some relief. They got a little bit more than they bargained for.

Stewart: You wrote in your piece that California had a de facto role as an auto regulator for the nation, and California is pushing back against this hard. Explain why California is the de facto auto regulator and how it's pushing back?

Timothy Puko: So, California has been a leader for decades in terms of environmental standards, clean air regulations. They were doing it even before the federal government passed the clean air act. They worked in collaboration with the Obama administration to set these standards. There are a dozen other states that also follow those rules, and that covers about a third of the country's whole auto market. So, effectively, they're the ones with the power because the auto industry doesn't want to build cars for two different standards. Logistically, it would be very difficult. You know, it's very costly. It can be confusing. And this is an industry that spends billions and billions on research and development and on logistics. And so, if California and the federal government don't agree, it's a big problem for the automakers. That's the situation that we've gotten into now. California has this power. They want to keep the rules that have been in place since 2012. But the trump administration doesn't agree. They want to get rid of them. And to do that, they'll have to fight the power that California has. They've put out in this proposal that they have the authority to effectively override or eliminate California’s waiver, California’s authority. California certainly doesn't agree. That's why this is probably going to court. And pretty much everyone I’ve talked to expects that if it does, it will go all the way to the supreme court.

Stewart: This is to be continued. Tim Puko with the Wall Street Journal. Thanks so much.

Tim Puko: Thank you.

斯图尔特：直到上周四，美国汽车制造商才准备设计到2025年平均每加仑50英里的车辆。该标准根据奥巴马时代，旨在减少温室气体排放的法规制定。但现在，E.P.A.。国家公路交通安全管理局已宣布撤回要求的提案。反对派不仅来自环保团体，同时也来自各州，且令人惊讶的是，还来自一些汽车制造商本身。《华尔街日报》的蒂莫西·普科现在从华盛顿特区加入我们，我们从中获取更多信息。蒂姆，那么，这个提议提出燃油效率与车辆成本和车辆安全性之间的联系。该提案声称什么？

蒂莫西·普科：嗯，特朗普政府说，如果你把燃油效率的标准定得太高，那就会让汽车变得太贵，人们也不打算购买。如果他们不购买最新，最安全的汽车，那么他们就无法实现最佳的燃油效率，就达不到最高的安全标准。他们基本上说，奥巴马政府对于空气质量的预测，对于碳排放改善的估计并不切实际，因为人们不会购买他们需要购买的车型来实现它。

斯图尔特：谁持这种观点？

蒂莫西·普科：嗯，一开始，是汽车制造商。消费者偏好发生了巨大变化。一旦油价下跌，然后汽油价格下跌，人们将再次购买更多的卡车，更多的SUV，汽车制造商们非常非常公开地说，你知道，“我们认为我们不会执行这些命令。”事实上，在过去一年中，他们略微落后于奥巴马时代所提的要求。所以，他们基本上要求一些缓和。他们得到的东西，比他们要得更多。

斯图尔特：你在自己的文章中写道，加利福尼亚州事实上成为了这个国家进行汽车监管的机构，而加利福尼亚州正在努力反驳这一点。请解释一下，为什么说加利福尼亚州事实上成为了这个国家进行汽车监管的机构以及它是如何反驳的？那么，加州几十年来一直是环保方面，以及清洁空气法规方面的领跑者。他们甚至在联邦政府通过清洁空气法案之前就已经在这样做了。他们与奥巴马政府合作制定了这些标准。还有十几个其他州也遵守这些规则，这占全国汽车市场的三分之一左右。所以，实际上，他们是有权力的人，因为汽车行业不想执行两种不同的汽车制造标准。从逻辑上讲，这将非常困难。你知道，这代价巨大。这可能令人困惑。这是一个在研发和物流方面花费数十亿美元的产业。因此，如果加利福尼亚州和联邦政府不同意，这对汽车制造商来说是一个大问题。这就是我们现在所处的境况。加州有这种力量。他们希望保留自2012年以来的规则。但特朗普政府不同意。他们想要废除。要做到这一点，他们将不得不与加利福尼亚州拥有的权力作斗争。他们在这个提案中提出，他们有权有效地推翻或取消加利福尼亚州的豁免，即加利福尼亚州的权威。加州肯定不同意。这就是为什么这可能会被告上法庭。几乎所有与我交谈过的人都希望如果确实如此，这个案子将会一直通到最高法院。

斯图尔特：这会继续下去。《华尔街日报》的蒂姆·普科。非常感谢。

蒂姆·普科：谢谢。