美国国家公共电台 NPR 被捕还是逃往乌克兰? 白俄罗斯反对派领袖下落成谜（在线收听）

Belarusian authorities say they have arrested an opposition leader on the country's border with Ukraine. But Maria Kolesnikova's supporters say the government was trying to forcibly deport her and silence another critic of President Alexander Lukashenko. Kolesnikova was reportedly first picked up on the streets of Minsk on Monday by plainclothes police. She's been helping lead massive protests in Belarus since last month, when President Lukashenko won a disputed reelection. He's been president of the country for more than a quarter-century. For more on this arrest and what it means for Lukashenko's control, we're joined now by Hanna Yahorava. She's director of United MassMedia, an association representing newspapers and news sites in Belarus.

白俄罗斯有关部门表示，他们在该国与乌克兰边境逮捕了一名反对派领袖。但玛丽亚·科列斯尼科娃的支持者表示，政府试图强行驱逐她，并压制她和另一名亚山历大·卢卡申科总统的批评者。据报道，科列斯尼科娃周一在明斯克街头首次被便衣警察逮捕。自上个月卢卡申科总统赢得备受争议的连任以来，她一直在帮助领导白俄罗斯的大规模抗议活动。卢卡申科已在白俄罗斯执政超过25年。下面我们来连线汉娜·雅霍拉娃，了解这起逮捕行动的更多信息以及这对卢卡申科的控制意味着什么。她是联合大众传媒协会的负责人，该协会代表白俄罗斯的报纸和新闻网站。

Welcome.

欢迎你。

HANNA YAHORAVA: Hello. It's a pleasure to be on here today.

汉娜·雅霍拉娃：你好。很高兴今天和你们连线。

CHANG: Well, it's a pleasure to have you. So there are two stories about what happened at the border. Do we know whether Kolesnikova was fleeing as the government says she is, or was the government just trying to remove her from the country?

张：很高兴能请到你。就边境所发生的事情来说，现在有两个版本。那科列斯尼科娃是如政府所说的正在逃离，还是说政府在试图将她驱逐出境？

YAHORAVA: As far as we know, Maria didn't want to leave the country at all, so she was forced to go to the border. But then on the border, she just tore her passport into small pieces, and she didn't. She refused to go to Ukraine. So as far as we know, Maria is still in Belarus. But nobody knows for sure where exactly.

雅霍拉娃：据我们所知，玛丽亚根本不想离开白俄罗斯，她是被迫前往边境的。但到达边境之后，她撕碎了护照，并没有去乌克兰。她拒绝前往乌克兰。据我们所知，玛丽亚现在仍在白俄罗斯境内。但没有人知道她到底在哪里。

CHANG: OK. Well, these protests have been going on for a month now. Lukashenko's government has rounded up thousands of demonstrators. And recently, it's tried targeting opposition leaders. How is that tactic working so far?

张：好。这些抗议活动已经持续了一个月。卢卡申科政府围捕了数千名示威者。最近，政府试图锁定反对派领袖。目前来看，这一策略的效果如何？

YAHORAVA: Every step of the brutal detention or any kind of violence toward citizens is making our protests bigger and wider. They still continuing to ask for the very simple things — to have new free and fair elections and to stop the brutality and violence on the Minsk and Belarusian streets and, of course, to release the prisoners. So people are not going to stop it right now, despite all the facts of authorities' actions.

雅霍拉娃：任何残暴残举措或针对公民的暴力行动都使抗议活动的规模日益壮大，且范围日益扩大。抗议者的要求仍然十分简单——举行自由且公平的新选举，终止明斯克和白俄罗斯街头的暴行和暴力，当然还有释放囚犯。因此，尽管政府采取了各种举措，人们现在不会停止抗议。

CHANG: Well, as we've said, Lukashenko has managed to hold on to power for quite some time. For 26 years, he controls the media, the army, the economy, the secret police. Do people in Belarus genuinely believe that they can displace him with peaceful marches?

张：我们刚才提到，卢卡申科在相当长一段时间内成功地保住了权力。26年来，他掌控着媒体、军队、经济和秘密警察。白俄罗斯人真的相信他们能用和平游行的方式让他下台吗？

YAHORAVA: It's a very hard and a good question. People still want to keep protests peaceful. They don't see any other solution right now. They want to demonstrate that they're wide majority. So unfortunately, we don't have any other tools to change situation from inside.

雅霍拉娃：这是个好问题，但很难回答。人们仍然希望让抗议活动保持和平。目前他们没有任何其他的解决方法。他们想证明自己是绝大多数。不幸的是，我们没有任何其他工具来从内部改变局势。

CHANG: Do you feel like you are living in a democracy?

张：你认为自己生活在民主国家吗？

YAHORAVA: Unfortunately not — we are living not in democracy at all. It's like we are occupied by military forces. And all the craziness is going on every single day. When people from different professional occupations are just detained, arrested being at home, we don't feel any — anything safe here. So it's a lot of fear in society. But we understand that it's very difficult to stop. If we will stop, we will lose everything, and all the victims will be for nothing.

雅霍拉娃：非常不幸，答案是否定的，我们完全没有生活在民主中。现在就像是我们被军队占领了。每天都在上演非常疯狂的事情。当来自不同职业的人在家被拘留、被逮捕时，我们感觉这里完全没有安全感。因此，社会上有很多恐惧。但我们知道，很难停下。如果我们停下，我们会失去一切，所有受害者都将一无所获。

CHANG: Hanna Yahorava is director of United MassMedia in Minsk, Belarus.

张：以上是联合大众传媒的汉娜·雅霍拉娃从白俄罗斯明斯克带来的报道。

Thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us today.

谢谢你今天抽出时间和我们连线。

YAHORAVA: Thank you.

雅霍拉娃：谢谢。