PBS高端访谈:美国的牛肉来自哪里?沾满鲜血的牛肉供应链（在线收听）

JUDY WOODRUFF: When outbreaks of COVID-19 at meat processing plants in the U.S. slowed production, American wholesalers turned to foreign beef suppliers. Beef exporters in the small country of Nicaragua were happy to fill that gap, actually ramping up production amid the pandemic. But this has come at a high cost for Indigenous communities, who are being run off their land to make way for cattle ranches. A warning to viewers: This story contains some upsetting images of violence. Nate Halverson of Reveal from the Center for Investigative Reporting is our guide.

朱迪·伍德乐夫：在美国的肉品加工厂因爆发新冠肺炎而导致生产放缓时，美国批发商转向了外国牛肉供应商。小国家尼加拉瓜的牛肉出口商很乐意填补这一缺口，在疫情蔓延期间甚至还提高了产量。然而，此举却给当地的土著人民带来了高昂的代价，他们被迫离开自己的土地，为养牛场让路。警告：本则新闻包含暴力场面。来自《揭露》调查报道中心的内特·霍尔沃森为我们报道。

NATE HALVERSON: That classic American meal, the hamburger, is increasingly arriving on ships. Imports of frozen beef are up nearly 20 percent since the coronavirus pandemic began slowing U.S. meat production. And one country has led that surge of imported beef. Nicaragua, that small Central American country, has become the third largest supplier of frozen beef to the United States. Its imports have reached an all-time high during the pandemic, doubling in just four years, according to U.S. import records I reviewed. But how this little country the size of Mississippi exports all that beef comes with a cost.

内特·霍尔沃森：美国的经典美食，汉堡，越来越依赖轮船运输。自从新冠肺炎令美国的肉类生产减速以来，美国的冷冻牛肉进口增加了近20%，其中有一个国家是主要的贡献者，即已经成为美国冷冻牛肉第三大供应国的中美洲小国尼加拉瓜。根据我看过的美国进口记录显示，美国对尼加拉瓜牛肉的进口在新冠肺炎期间达到了历史最高水平，仅四年就翻了一番。然而，对于这个只有密西西比州那么大的国家来说，出口牛肉是要付出代价的。

ANURADHA MITTAL, Executive Director, Oakland Institute: The supply chain of beef from Nicaragua is anything but clean.

阿努拉达·米塔尔，奥克兰研究所执行董事：尼加拉瓜的牛肉供应链一点儿都不干净。

NATE HALVERSON: Anuradha Mittal a nonprofit, the Oakland Institute, that investigates land thefts around the world. In a socially distanced interview, she described how she went to Nicaragua after hearing that cattle ranchers are stealing land from Indigenous communities.

内特·霍尔沃森：奥克兰是非营利机构，专门调查世界各地的土地盗窃案。在一次通过安全社交距离的采访当中，她描述了自己听到的牧场主从土著社区窃取土地然后前往尼加拉瓜的全过程。

NATE HALVERSON: When you got there, what did you find?

内特·霍尔沃森：当你到那里的时候，你发现了什么？

ANURADHA MITTAL: The Indigenous populations are not just losing their lands. They're losing their livelihoods. They're losing their lives.

阿努拉达·米塔尔：那些土著居民失去的不仅仅是土地，他们失去的是他们的生计，是他们的生命。

NATE HALVERSON: In January, a group of armed cattle ranchers attacked an Indigenous community in Nicaragua, burning homes and killing four men. An Indigenous leader shared these cell phone images that capture the destruction and the funerals in their community.

内特·霍尔沃森：今年一月，一群武装的牧场主袭击了尼加拉瓜的一个土著社区，烧毁房屋并杀死了4人。一个土著领袖用手机分享了这些照片，记录了当地遭到的破坏和举行的葬礼。

ANURADHA MITTAL: People are dying from violent land invasions, their lands taken away for cattle ranching, cattle, which then turns into beef, which comes into United States. Yes, people are being killed.

阿努拉达·米塔尔：人们死于暴力的土地入侵，他们的土地被用来放牧，然后变成牛肉卖进美国。是的，人们正在被杀害。

NATE HALVERSON: The Indigenous communities own these lands under a landmark international court ruling 19 years ago. Yet a recent United Nations report reveals that, despite the law, Indigenous people are increasingly losing their lands and their lives to cattle ranchers.

内特·霍尔沃森：根据国际法院19年前的一项具有里程碑意义的裁决来看，这些土地为土著社区所拥有。然而，联合国最近的一份报告显示，尽管存在这项法律，还是有越来越多的土著人民被牧场主夺走土地和生命。

ANURADHA MITTAL: So this violence is escalating.

阿努拉达·米塔尔：暴力正在升级。

NATE HALVERSON: Lottie Cunningham is a leader in the Indigenous community. I asked her about the cattle invasions.

内特·霍尔沃森：洛蒂·坎宁安是土著社区的领袖，我询问了她有关“牛入侵”的事情。

LOTTIE CUNNINGHAM, Attorney: That is going to cause us an ethnocide. And, as Indigenous people, we are going to disappear.

洛蒂·坎宁安，律师：这将导致我们遭遇种族文化灭绝，我们土著人将会消失。

NATE HALVERSON: As beef exports have increased to the U.S., so have attacks on these small Indigenous communities, resulting in whole villages being decimated and abandoned.

内特·霍尔沃森：随着美国牛肉进口量的增加，这些小土著社区受到的攻击也在增加，甚至整个村庄都惨遭摧毁和遗弃。

LOTTIE CUNNINGHAM: In this year, we have more than 10 people in less than seven months murdered already. The settlers, them shot with a gun one girl of 14 years.

洛蒂·坎宁安：今年，在不到7个月的时间里，已经有十几个人被杀害，定居者用枪射杀了一个14岁的女孩。

NATE HALVERSON: Why would somebody do that to her?

内特·霍尔沃森：他们为什么这么做？

LOTTIE CUNNINGHAM: To create fear.

洛蒂·坎宁安：为了制造恐惧。

NATE HALVERSON: Is it safe for you?

内特·霍尔沃森：对你来说安全吗？

LOTTIE CUNNINGHAM: No, it's not safe for me. I have suffered death threat. I have suffered intimidation, harassment. But I have to continue this battle, because my people is suffering.

洛蒂·坎宁安：不，我不安全，我受过死亡威胁，我遭受过恐吓和骚扰，但我必须继续战斗，因为我的人民正在受苦受难。

NATE HALVERSON: The Nicaraguan government is legally obligated to protect the Indigenous people from land invasions. But Cunningham and others say that, instead, President Daniel Ortega's government is cutting ribbons for new slaughterhouses, which buy cattle raised on the stolen lands and sell the beef to their biggest customer, the United States. The Nicaraguan ambassador, who I spoke to multiple times on the phone, declined to sit down for an interview or address the deadly attacks by cattle ranchers. But Senator Mike Rounds, who has been looking into imported beef, told me in a socially distanced interview that most Americans don't even realize they're eating Nicaraguan beef.

内特·霍尔沃森：尼加拉瓜政府在法律上有义务保护土著人民不受土地入侵，但根据坎宁安和其他人的表述，总统丹尼尔奥尔特加政府非但没有这样做，相反正在为新的屠宰场“剪彩”。这些屠宰场购买在被盗土地上饲养的牛，然后把牛肉卖给它们最大的客户—美国。我与尼加拉瓜大使多次通话，他拒绝接受座谈，也拒绝就牧场主的致命袭击发表讲话。但一直在调查进口牛肉的参议员迈克·沃夫在一次安全社交距离的采访当中告诉我，大多数美国人甚至都没有意识到他们在吃尼加拉瓜的牛肉。

SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): American consumers don't have any inkling as to where their beef comes from today.

参议员麦克·沃恩斯（共和党）：美国的消费者根本不知道他们的牛肉来自哪里。

NATE HALVERSON: That's because U.S. beef importers are no longer required to disclose where their meat comes from, after a change in U.S. regulations four years ago.

内特·霍尔沃森：这是因为美国在四年前修改了相关规定，牛肉进口商不再被要求公开其牛肉来源。

SEN. MIKE ROUNDS: That's right. The chances are very good that it can contain product from other countries, and that all that happened was, it was brought here to the United States. And, if they slice it up here, they can put a Product of the USA sticker on it.

参议员麦克·沃恩斯：是的，牛肉有很高的几率来自其他国家，结果就是，这些牛肉被运到美国。如果牛在美国被切开，那么他们可以把“美国制造”标签贴在上面。

NATE HALVERSON: Senator Rounds wants all beef to carry country-of-origin labeling again and, in October, introduced the U.S. Beef Integrity Act.

内特·霍尔沃森：参议员沃恩斯希望所有的牛肉都重新贴上原产国标签，他在10月份提出了《美国牛肉诚信法案》。

SEN. MIKE ROUNDS: If it comes from a country where you believe that there are human rights violations, if it comes from a country where you don't trust that the quality is being assured, then I think the consumer should have the ability to say, wait a minute, I don't want to buy that.

参议员麦克·沃恩斯：如果牛肉来自一个你认为侵犯了他人人权的国家，如果牛肉来自一个你认为不能保证质量的国家，那么我觉得消费者有权力说：等等，我不想买这个。

NATE HALVERSON: Dozens of companies import be from Nicaragua, Thomas Foods is one of the largest, importing beef from some of the same slaughterhouses that Lottie Cunningham said are buying cattle from the ranchers attacking her community. Thomas Foods sells its imported grass-fed and organic beef nationwide to Walmart, Safeway, Target, even Yale University. On its Web site, it claims to track production--quote--every step of the way, literally from the farm to the table. But, in Nicaragua, that's not true. Like other importers of Nicaraguan beef, it buys from the slaughterhouses, not directly from the farmers, and has no way of ensuring where in Nicaragua that beef comes from.

内特·霍尔沃森：有几十家公司从尼加拉瓜进口牛肉，托马斯食品公司是其中最大的一家，它直接从一些屠宰场进口牛肉。根据洛蒂·坎宁安的陈述，这些屠宰场会从那些攻击她所在社区的牧场主那里购买牛。托马斯食品公司在全国范围内向沃尔玛、西夫韦、塔吉特，甚至耶鲁大学出售进口草饲和有机牛肉，其网站上声称会追踪每一步生产过程，确切地说就是，从农场到餐桌的每一步，然而在尼加拉瓜，情况并非如此。和其他尼加拉瓜牛肉进口商一样，托马斯食品公司并不是从农民那里买牛，而是直接从屠宰场购买，它无法确保这些牛肉来自尼加拉瓜的哪个地方。

NATE HALVERSON: Well, I'm here at Thomas Foods. The CEO, Michael Forrest, has not returned my phone calls or my e-mails, but I thought I'd give him one last try to see if we can sit down and hear about Nicaraguan beef imports.

内特·霍尔沃森：我现在在托马斯食品公司，其首席执行官迈克尔·福雷斯特没有回我的电话和邮件，但我想我应该给他最后一次机会看看我们能否坐下来听听尼加拉瓜牛肉进口的事情。

NATE HALVERSON: Yes, hey, Michael, it's Nate Halverson with Reveal and the PBS NewsHour.

内特·霍尔沃森：嘿，迈克尔，我是来自《揭露》和《PBS新闻一小时》的内特·霍尔沃森。

NATE HALVERSON: Michael Forrest never called back. But I talked to company security guards, who helped track down a different executive.

内特·霍尔沃森：迈克尔·福雷斯特一直没有回我电话，不过我和公司的保安谈了一下，他们帮我找到了另一位高管。

JOHN CASSIDY, Chief Financial Officer, Thomas Foods: I'm John Cassidy. I'm the chief financial officer.

约翰·卡西迪，托马斯食品公司首席财务官：我是约翰·卡西迪，这里的首席财务官。

NATE HALVERSON: I explained to John Cassidy what I'd read in public reports, the murder and violence, and how the Nicaraguan slaughterhouses were sourcing beef from these stolen lands.

内特·霍尔沃森：我向约翰·卡西迪叙述了我在公开报道中所看到的谋杀和暴力行为以及尼加拉瓜屠宰场从那些被偷的土地上采购牛肉的过程。

JOHN CASSIDY: If we were to find out that there was something that you just explained going on, that would definitely impact our purchasing decisions.

约翰·卡西迪：如果你刚才所说的是真的，如果我们知道的话那肯定会影响我们的购买决定。

NATE HALVERSON: Who within your company's job is it to make sure that that's not happening in the beef industry?

内特·霍尔沃森：你们公司有人来确保牛肉行业不会发生这种情况吗？

JOHN CASSIDY: I think that falls all of us as executives.

约翰·卡西迪：我认为这是我们所有高管的责任。

NATE HALVERSON: So, if Thomas Foods knew that, within Nicaragua, the beef was being sourced from these regions where the Indigenous people, the brown people, the Black people are being murdered, and their land taken from them, you guys would stop buying from Nicaragua?

内特·霍尔沃森：所以就是说，如果托马斯食品公司知道尼加拉瓜的牛肉来自那些地区，知道土著人、棕色人种、黑人被谋杀，他们的土地被夺走，你们就会停止从尼加拉瓜购买牛肉是吗？

JOHN CASSIDY: I believe we would, yes. Yes. So, we're not out to exploit anyone.

约翰·卡西迪：我相信我们会的，是的，没错。所以，我们没想要剥削任何人。

NATE HALVERSON: Thomas Foods e-mailed me a statement a few days later, saying they will continue to import from Nicaragua because their partners have an agreement that commits to zero agricultural activity in protected areas. I asked for a copy of that agreement. But Thomas Foods declined, saying they would have no further comment.

内特·霍尔沃森：几天后，托马斯食品公司给我发了一封电子邮件，说他们会继续从尼加拉瓜进口牛肉，因为他们和合作伙伴达成了一项协议，承诺不在保护区进行任何活动。我向他们索要协议的副本，但托马斯食品公司拒绝了，并表示不做进一步评论。

CAMILO DE CASTRO BELLI, Journalist: If they're saying that there's actually actions being taken, they're lying.

卡米洛·德·卡斯特罗·贝利，记者：如果他们说自己采取了行动，他们在撒谎。

NATE HALVERSON: Camilo de Castro Belli, a veteran Nicaraguan journalist, said the Indigenous communities and the cattle companies did discuss an agreement, but it fell apart.

内特·霍尔沃森：尼加拉瓜资深记者卡米洛·德卡斯特罗·贝利表示，土著社区和养牛公司确实讨论过一项协议，但协议最终破裂了。

CAMILO DE CASTRO BELLI: There's no agreement. The cattle industry has been basically worried about their bottom line. And they haven't taken any concrete actions.

卡米洛·德卡斯特罗·贝利：没有协议，养牛业基本上都在守着自己的底线，他们没有采取任何的具体行动。

NATE HALVERSON: De Castro recently filmed these cattle being raised on the same Indigenous lands that Thomas Foods said that agreement was supposed to protect. De Castro said U.S. retailers need to take a closer look at their supply chains.

内特·霍尔沃森：最近，德卡斯特罗拍摄了一些牛被饲养的场景，而饲养的地方正是托马斯食品公司所说的协议中的保护区。德卡斯特罗称，美国零售商需要更仔细地审视自己的供应链。

CAMILO DE CASTRO BELLI: They are being complicit with a system that is hurting people, which is killing people.

卡米洛·德卡斯特罗·贝利：他们和一个伤害人民、杀害人民的体制串通一气。

NATE HALVERSON: I reached out to Walmart, Safeway and Target. Safeway's parent company said they bought beaf from Thomas Foods this year because of the meat shortages. Walmart declined to comment. And Target denied selling beef from Nicaragua. But when I sent details about Thomas Foods' import records, the retailer declined further comment. I asked Lottie Cunningham what she would have Americans do about Nicaraguan beef.

内特·霍尔沃森：我联系了沃尔玛、西夫韦和塔吉特（均为零售百货类公司）。西夫韦的总公司称，今年由于肉类短缺，所以他们从托马斯食品公司购买了牛肉。沃尔玛拒绝置评。塔吉特则否认其销售的牛肉来自尼加拉瓜，但当我向其发送有关托马斯食品公司进口记录的详细信息时，该零售商拒绝进一步置评。我询问了洛蒂·坎宁安她希望美国人怎样对待尼加拉瓜的牛肉。

LOTTIE CUNNINGHAM: Please don't buy. That's the way -- that's the way they could contribute with us.

洛蒂·坎宁安：请不要购买，这是你们能为我们做出贡献的方式。

NATE HALVERSON: But American consumers can't make that choice until they know where their beef comes from. And so, for now, the cattle ranches in Nicaragua are expanding, and the killings continue. For PBS NewsHour and Reveal, I'm Nate Halverson.

内特·霍尔沃森：但是，美国的消费者只有知道他们购买的牛肉来自哪里才能够做出选择。所以，此刻，尼加拉瓜的牧牛场仍在扩大，屠杀仍在继续。这里是《PBS新闻一小时》和《揭露》，我是内特·霍尔沃森。