PBS高端访谈:脸书和推特受到质疑和批评（在线收听）

JUDY WOODRUFF: Social media under fire. Top executives of tech giants faced off with U.S. lawmakers today. Amna Nawaz reports.

AMNA NAWAZ: A barrage of questions and criticism for the CEOs of Twitter and Facebook, appearing virtually before a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on censorship, disinformation, and the 2020 election.

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI): What evidence do you have that these labels are effective in addressing President Trump's lies?

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): It is time we took action against these modern-day robber barons.

AMNA NAWAZ: The tech giants hailed the progress they have made so far. Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey.

JACK DORSEY, CEO, Twitter: The public asked us to offer additional context to help make potentially misleading information more apparent. We did exactly that.

AMNA NAWAZ: The head of Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg.

MARK ZUCKERBERG, Chairman and CEO, Facebook: We have taken down more than 100 networks of bad actors who were trying to coordinate and interfere globally. We established a network of independent fact-checkers that covers more than 60 languages.

AMNA NAWAZ: But Senator Richard Blumenthal, Democrat from Connecticut, insisted that's not enough.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): The destructive, incendiary misinformation is still a scourge on both your platforms and on others.

AMNA NAWAZ: Democrats largely focused there, how to combat misinformation and disinformation, even when it comes from the president. Two weeks after Election Day, President Trump continues to tweet baseless claims of voter fraud, falsely insisting he won. Both Twitter and Facebook have labeled some of the president's posts as misinformation. Senator Dianne Feinstein, Democrat from California, asked Dorsey about the president's tweet on November, saying -- quote -- I won this election by a lot. Twitter added a label that says -- quote -- Official sources may not have called the race when this was tweeted.

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D-CA): Does that label do enough to prevent the tweet's harms, when the tweet is still visible and is not accurate?

JACK DORSEY: I believe it is really important that we show people a broader context, and that is the intention of the label. It is not just text below a tweet. It is a link to connect to a much larger conversation and news articles across the spectrum.

AMNA NAWAZ: Republicans today focused their fire on accusations of bias against conservative voices. Chairman Lindsey Graham, Republican from South Carolina, first called the hearing after Twitter blocked a New York Post article about Hunter Biden that violated its policy on sharing hacked materials. After backlash, Twitter reversed course, amending the policy to block only the hackers or their associates, and adding a label to possibly hacked content.

JACK DORSEY: I hope this illustrates the rationale behind our actions and demonstrates our ability to take feedback, admit mistakes and make changes, all transparently, to the public.

AMNA NAWAZ: Both Dorsey and Zuckerberg were repeatedly pressed on what content they'd allow and what they'd take down. A Facebook post, for example, by former Trump adviser Steve Bannon called for the beheading of Dr. Anthony Fauci and FBI Director Christopher Wray.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL: How many times is Steve Bannon allowed to call for the murder of government officials before Facebook suspends his account?

MARK ZUCKERBERG: The content in question did violate our policies, and we took it down. Having a content violation does not automatically mean your content -- your account gets taken down. And the number of strikes varies depending on the amount -- the type of offense.

AMNA NAWAZ: But when asked if Facebook would take down Bannon's account altogether?

MARK ZUCKERBERG: Senator, no, that's not what our policies would suggest that we should do.

AMNA NAWAZ: Central to all this, growing calls to reform Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, a 1996 rule designed to protect Internet companies from liability.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Do both of you support change to 230, reform of Section 230?

MARK ZUCKERBERG: Senator, I do.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Mr. Dorsey?

JACK DORSEY: Yes.

AMNA NAWAZ: With the Georgia special elections looming in January, which will determine Senate control, both CEOs pledged continued vigilance. For the PBS NewsHour, I'm Amna Nawaz.

朱迪·伍德乐夫：社交媒体目前受到攻击，今天，科技巨头的高管与美国国会议员进行了会谈。阿姆纳·纳瓦兹为我们报道。

阿姆纳·纳瓦兹：就在参议院司法委员会就审查制度、虚假信息和2020年大选举行听证会之前，“推特”和“脸书”的首席执行官们受到了一系列的质疑和批评。

参议员玛泽·广野（民主党-夏威夷州）：你有什么证据证明这些标签对解决特朗普总统的谎言有效？

参议员乔希·霍利(共和党-密苏里州)：现在是我们采取行动对付这些现代强盗大亨的时候了。

阿姆纳·纳瓦兹：这两家科技巨头为他们迄今为止取得的进展而欢呼。推特首席执行官杰克·多尔西。

推特首席执行官杰克·多尔西：公众要求我们提供其它的背景资料来凸显潜在的误导性信息，我们确实做到了。

阿姆纳·纳瓦兹：脸书的总裁，马克·扎克伯格。

脸书的董事长兼首席执行官马克·扎克伯格：我们已经关闭了100多个试图在全球范围内进行协调和干预的恶意网络，我们建立了一个涵盖60多种语言的独立的事实核查网络。

阿姆纳·纳瓦兹：但是来自康涅狄格州的民主党参议员理查德·布卢门撒尔坚持认为这还不够。

参议员理查德·布卢门撒尔(民主党-康涅狄格州)：这种具有破坏性和煽动性的错误信息对你的平台和其他人来说仍是一种祸害。

阿姆纳·纳瓦兹：民主党人主要关注的是如何打击虚假信息，甚至是来自总统的虚假信息。大选日过去两周后，特朗普总统仍在推特上毫无根据地宣称选民欺诈，错误地坚称自己赢了。推特和脸书都认为总统发的一些帖子是虚假信息。来自加州的民主党参议员黛安·范斯坦询问了多尔西关于总统在11月发布的“我以很大优势赢得了这次选举”这一推特消息。推特添加了一个标签，称“该条推文发出时，官方信源可能还未预测出选举结果。”

参议员黛安娜·范斯坦(民主党-加利福尼亚州)：在推文仍然可见但信息虚假的情况下，这个标签是否足以防止推文带来的危害呢？

杰克·多尔西：我觉得向人们展示更广泛的背景信息十分重要，这也是标签存在的意义，它不仅仅是标签下面的文字，它是一个链接，可以连接到范围内更多的评论和新闻文章。

阿姆纳·纳瓦兹：今天，共和党人将火力集中在对保守派的偏见的指控上。来自南卡罗来纳州的共和党主席林赛·格雷厄姆在推特上屏蔽了《纽约邮报》的一篇有关亨特·拜登的文章后首次召集了听证会，这篇文章违反了其“分享黑客资料”的政策。在遭到强烈反对后，推特改变了做法，修改了政策，只屏蔽黑客或其同伙，并为可能被黑客攻击的内容添加了标签。

杰克·多尔西：我希望这能够表明我们行动背后的原因并显示我们接受反馈、承认错误和做出改变的能力，所有这些都以透明的方式呈现在公众面前。

阿姆纳·纳瓦兹：多尔西和扎克伯格都被反复追问他们允许哪些发布内容、不允许发布哪些内容。比如特朗普前顾问史蒂夫·班农在脸书上发的一个帖子，该贴呼吁将安东尼·福奇博士和联邦调查局局长克里斯托弗·雷斩首。

参议员理查德·布卢门撒尔：在脸书暂停史蒂夫·班农的账户之前，他有多少次被允许在脸书上呼吁谋杀政府官员？

马克·扎克伯格：有问题的内容确实违反了我们的政策，我们会删除掉，但内容违规并不意味着你的账户会被注销，而打击的次数取决于攻击的类型。

阿姆纳·纳瓦兹：但当被问及脸书是否会彻底删除班农的账户时？

马克·扎克伯格：参议员，不，我们的政策不建议我们这么做。

阿姆纳·纳瓦兹：最重要的是，越来越多的人呼吁改革《通信规范法》的第230节。该法案于1996年制定，旨在保护互联网公司免于承担法律责任。

参议员林赛·格雷厄姆：你俩都支持对230条款进行改革吗？

马克·扎克伯格：参议员，我支持。

参议员林赛·格雷厄姆：多尔西先生呢？

杰克·多尔西：我也支持。

阿姆纳·纳瓦兹：随着明年1月将决定参议院控制权的佐治亚州特别选举的临近，两位首席执行官承诺将持续保持警惕。这里是PBS新闻一小时，我是阿姆纳·纳瓦兹。