新闻周刊:娜斯鲍姆专访:特朗普的恐惧厌恶策略可以被击败(1)（在线收听）

From the Cover

《封面》文章

President Trump's Tactics of Fear And Loathing Can Be Defeated: An Interview With Martha C. Nussbaum

特朗普总统的恐惧和厌恶策略可以被击败: 采访玛莎·C.娜斯鲍姆

BY NINA BURLEIGH

作者：妮娜·布雷

At a glamorous event in December at the New York Public Library in Manhattan, an international who’s who—Princess Beatrice of York, model Karlie Kloss, David Rockefeller, Wendi Deng Murdoch and Kerry Kennedy among them—gathered to honor the closest thing philosophy has to a rock star: Martha Nussbaum. The elegant source of their admiration was being celebrated at the third annual Berggruen Prize Gala; the award, which includes a $1 million endowment, is given to “thinkers whose ideas have helped us find direction, wisdom, and improved self-understanding in a world being rapidly transformed by profound social, technological, political, cultural, and economic change.”

去年12月，位于曼哈顿的纽约公共图书馆举行了一场盛大的活动，国际名人齐聚一堂，约克公主碧翠丝、模特卡莉·克劳斯、大卫·洛克菲勒、邓文迪·默多克和克里·肯尼迪都在其中，此举为了赞誉最接近摇滚明星的哲学家: 玛莎·娜斯鲍姆。在第三届伯格鲁恩奖颁奖晚会上，他们的赞美之情溢于言表；该奖项包括一项100万美元的捐赠，旨在表彰“在这个被深刻的社会、技术、政治、文化和经济变革迅速改变的世界里，用头脑帮助我们找到方向和智慧的思想家”。

The 71-year-old Nussbaum, a moral philosopher and law professor at the University of Chicago, is passionately concerned with justice and how it affects the personal and political. But her interest goes beyond the theoretical; she is committed to using philosophy to improve the very vocabulary of public discourse. Nussbaum has written five major books dedicated to this. The most recent, The Monarchy of Fear, is an engaging consideration of our current political crisis from the perspective of emotion—how anger, disgust and envy have been used, since antiquity, to divide people.

现年71岁的娜斯鲍姆是芝加哥大学的道德哲学家和法学教授，非常关注正义及其如何影响个人和政治。但她的兴趣不仅限于理论范畴；她致力于用哲学来提高公众话语的词汇量。娜斯鲍姆为此写了五本书。最近的一本书《恐惧的君主政体》从情绪的角度对我们当前的政治危机进行了深入的思考——自古以来，愤怒、厌恶和嫉妒是如何被用来分裂民族的。

Nussbaum disproves the dig on modern academics—that they live above the political fray, in ivory towers—perhaps because she takes her cues from the OGs of philosophy. “The great thinkers of the ancient tradition were not detached from political issues,” she says. “Seneca was regent of the Roman Emperor Nero, and he was trying to curb him from doing terrible things. There was no escaping political reality.”

娜斯鲍姆驳斥了对现代学术界的挖苦——他们生活在象牙塔的政治纷争之上——也许是因为她从哲学中得到了启示。她说:“古代传统的伟大思想家并没有脱离政治问题。”“塞内加是罗马皇帝尼禄的摄政者，他试图阻止尼禄做可怕的事情。政治现实无处可逃。”

Fear has dominated political conversation in the U.S. for a lot longer than Donald Trump has been president. But the noise of it has grown deafening and debilitating in the past two years. Though Nussbaum is certainly adept at putting fear in context, as well as articulating how it is used for political strategy and to justify rage, she—and we—are equally interested in how to move beyond it. With hate crimes on the rise and talk of impeachment everywhere, there is perhaps no more pressing concern. Below, a conversation on how to “purify” anger and find hope in the Trump era.

恐惧在美国政治对话中占据主导地位的时间比唐纳德·特朗普当总统的时间长得多。但是在过去的两年里，恐惧之声变得震耳欲聋，令人衰弱。尽管娜斯鲍姆肯定善于将恐惧置于情境之中，并清楚地说明它是如何被用于政治策略和为愤怒辩护的，但她和我们一样想着如何超越恐惧。仇恨犯罪不断上升，到处都在谈论弹劾，在这样的情况下，或许没有什么更紧迫的问题了。下面是一个关于如何在特朗普时代“净化”愤怒、找到希望的对话。