美国国家公共电台 NPR CIA局长在喀布尔密会塔利班领导人（在线收听）

In a surprise move, CIA Director William Burns has traveled to Kabul and has met the top Taliban political leader. That would be Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar.

美国中央情报局局长威廉·伯恩斯出人意料地前往喀布尔，与塔利班最高政治领袖会面。这名领袖是毛拉·阿卜杜勒·加尼·巴拉达尔。

This news comes as the U.S. faces an August 31 deadline, a self-imposed deadline for completing its airlift and the withdrawal of all U.S. troops.

这一消息发布之际，美国正面临8月31日的最后期限，这是美国自行设定的完成空运和撤离所有美军的最后期限。

For more, we're joined by NPR national security correspondent Greg Myre. Hey, Greg.

下面NPR新闻国家安全记者格雷格·迈尔将带来详细报道。你好，格雷格。

Hi, Mary Louise.

你好，玛丽·路易斯。

To start with, what's going on in Kabul. What is the latest?

首先，喀布尔发生了什么。有什么最新消息？

This airlift keeps picking up speed — 21,000 people, Americans, Afghans, third country nationals were evacuated in the past day.

空运速度不断加快——过去一天，2.1万名美国人、阿富汗人和第三国公民撤离。

But this August 31 deadline that you mentioned, self-imposed by President Biden, really seems to be firming up.

但你提到的这个8月31日的最后期限，由拜登总统自行设定，似乎真的越来越坚定。

And this is extremely tight because it's going to be difficult, if not impossible, for the military to airlift all the U.S. citizens and at-risk Afghans up until the final moment, which would be next Tuesday.

时间非常紧迫，因为在下周二的最后时刻之前，军方要空运所有美国公民和处于危险中的阿富汗人，即使并非不可能实现，但也会相当困难。

That's because there are almost 6,000 U.S. forces at the airport, and they have to organize their own departure.

这是因为机场有近6000名美军，他们必须自行组织撤离。

This includes dealing with equipment like armored vehicles and helicopters.

这包括处理装甲车和直升机等装备。

Now let's talk more about the surprise meeting between the director of the CIA and the Taliban's top political leader.

现在我们来谈谈中央情报局局长和塔利班最高政治领导人之间出人意料的会晤。

Oh, to be a fly on the wall of that one. What do we know, Greg?

哦，让我们成为不为人觉察的旁观者。格雷格，我们了解到了哪些信息？

Well, we know that William Burns and Mullah Baradar met on Monday in Kabul. We don't really have details.

我们知道威廉·伯恩斯和毛拉·巴拉达尔周一在喀布尔会面。但我们不了解任何细节。

And of course, it really begs the question, where did they meet?

当然，这确实回避了一个问题，他们在哪里举行的会谈？

Burns could have gone to the airport or the U.S. Embassy, but seems highly unlikely that Mullah Baradar would go there, so maybe the presidential palace. We just don't know.

伯恩斯本可以去机场或美国大使馆，但毛拉·巴拉达尔似乎不大可能去这些地方，因此二人的会谈地点可能是总统府。但我们并不清楚。

But it does suggest both sides are being pragmatic and see the need for a dialogue.

但这确实表明双方都很务实，而且都认为有必要进行对话。

And in addition to these high-level meetings, the Pentagon keeps saying they're in daily contact with the Taliban at the Kabul airport.

除了这些高层会议之外，五角大楼一直表示，他们每天都在喀布尔机场与塔利班保持联系。

Armed Taliban members are effectively performing crowd control. The military talks about expanding the perimeter there.

塔利班武装成员正在有效地控制人群。军方正在讨论扩大那里的警戒范围。

And it seems the Taliban has pushed the crowd back a bit. And this very strange arrangement has been working.

塔利班似乎让人群后退了一些。这种奇怪的安排一直在起作用。

And once we get past the immediate crisis — this, as you called it, this very strange agreement —

一旦我们度过了眼前的危机——正如你所说，这是一项非常奇怪的协议——

what are we expecting in terms of contact between the U.S. government, between others besides the CIA director and the Taliban?

我们对除中央情报局局长之外，美国政府和塔利班之间的接触有什么期待？

Well, based on what we're seeing now, Mary Louise, it seems like there's a good chance it could continue.

玛丽·路易斯，根据我们现在看到的情况，这种情况似乎很有可能继续下去。

The U.S. will have left over business even after the troops leave. Will the U.S. recognize the Taliban government?

即使在军队撤离后，美国也会留下一些业务。美国会承认塔利班政府吗？

Will the U.S. try to reopen its huge embassy in Kabul? So these are questions for the U.S.

美国是否会试图重新开放其在喀布尔的庞大大使馆？这些都是美国面临的问题。

On the Taliban side, they were shunned by the international community when they ruled from '96 to 2001.

塔利班方面，他们在1996年至2001年统治期间曾遭到国际社会的排斥。

They're really seeking international legitimacy this time. They're speaking generally in a softer tone and know that they can't rule alone.

这次他们实际上在寻求国际合法性。他们的语气通常比较温和，他们知道自己不能独自统治。

Also, they're facing an Afghan economy that's very weak, heavily dependent on assistance from the U.S. and other Western countries.

此外，他们还面临着阿富汗经济非常疲软，严重依赖美国和其他西方国家的援助等问题。

There could be a real risk of economic collapse, the humanitarian crisis, refugees flooding across the border.

经济崩溃、人道主义危机、难民涌入边境等风险可能会切实发生。

This may force the U.S. and the Taliban to cooperate, whether they like it or not.

这可能迫使美国和塔利班进行合作，无论他们是否愿意。

Yeah. And we should note that there is history here.

好。我们应该注意到这是有历史渊源的。

There's a lot of history, obviously, but there is personal history between the CIA and this specific Taliban leader. Tell us about it.

显然，有很多历史，但中情局和这位塔利班领导人之间曾有过接触。请介绍一下。

Well, Mullah Baradar first encountered the CIA as part of a joint Pakistan-CIA operation that captured him in 2010.

2010年，毛拉·巴拉达尔在巴基斯坦和中情局的联合行动中被捕，这是他首次与中情局接触。

He spent eight years in a Pakistani prison. When he got out in 2018, he negotiated this U.S.-Taliban agreement in Qatar.

他在巴基斯坦监狱里待了八年。2018年出狱后，他在卡塔尔的谈判工作帮助美国与塔利班达成协议。

And so now he's met with the CIA director under very different circumstances than his previous encounter.

因此，他现在与中情局局长会面的情况与他之前的情况截然不同。

That is NPR national security correspondent Greg Myre. Thank you, Greg.

以上是NPR新闻国家安全记者格雷格·迈尔带来的报道。谢谢你，格雷格。

My pleasure.

不客气。