美国国家公共电台 NPR ISIS-K制造喀布尔机场爆炸 美军开枪射击死伤多人（在线收听）

The Pentagon says it's begun to draw down U.S. forces at Hamid Karzai International Airport in the Afghan capital of Kabul.

五角大楼表示，他们已开始从阿富汗首都喀布尔的哈米德·卡尔扎伊国际机场撤军。

U.S. citizens and some Afghans are continuing to be evacuated,

美国公民和一些阿富汗人的撤离行动仍在继续，

but these final operations are taking place under extremely dangerous conditions.

但这些最后的行动在极其危险的条件下进行。

President Biden is warning that another terrorist attack in Afghanistan is highly likely.

拜登总统警告称，阿富汗很可能再次发生恐怖袭击。

This follows the attack on Thursday at the Kabul airport that killed at least 170 Afghans and 13 American military service members.

此前，周四喀布尔机场发生袭击，造成至少170名阿富汗人和13名美军死亡。

Nabih Bulos is a foreign correspondent with the Los Angeles Times and he joins us now from Kabul. Good morning.

纳比·布罗斯是《洛杉矶时报》的外国记者，他现在将从喀布尔和我们连线。早上好

Hi, how are you? Thanks for having me.

嗨，你好吗？谢谢你们邀请我。

Thanks for joining us. So let's start with the situation at the airport.

谢谢你加入我们。我们先从机场的情况开始。

Who is currently in charge? Are people still showing up in the hopes of being allowed on flights?

目前由谁负责？人们仍在赶往机场以希望被允许登上飞机吗？

Well, so since the blast, which happened a few days ago as you know, there has been a wider perimeter that's been established.

自从几天前发生爆炸以来，机场的警戒范围已被扩大。

So whereas before people could get right up to the gates, now they can actually only get to the road leading up to it.

以前人们可以直接到达登机口，但现在他们只能到达通往登机口的道路。

So it's — I mean, it's quite far away from the actual gates themselves.

我的意思是，现在人们能到达的地方离真正的登机口非常远。

Now, sometimes people still do manage to make it through, but overall, the Taliban have done a good job in terms of stopping people, you know, in cars from actually getting closer.

有时人们仍会设法通过，但总的来说，塔利班在阻止人们乘车靠近方面做得很好。

Today, I actually went to the airport again and we were able to go quite deeply inside with the Taliban,

今天，我又去了机场，我们可以和塔利班一起深入机场内部，

and what this means is that now the Taliban are the ones who are in charge of security around the perimeter of the airport, as well as the areas that are just outside the spot where the Americans are operating.

这意味着现在由塔利班负责机场周边以及美国行动地点以外地区的安全。

So the Americans are operating in a very specific site, you know, called the military side of Kabul airport, and that area still remains to be under the Americans.

因此，美国人在一个非常具体的地点开展工作，这个被称为喀布尔机场军事区的地区仍在美国的控制之下。

But anything, you know, beyond that is basically now all the Taliban, right?

但是，除此之外，现在基本都由塔利班控制，对吧？

So all the sort of previous things that you would see, like the CIA-trained militias called the 0-1s, these American allies that you would see before —

所有你之前会看到的，比如美国中情局训练的民兵以及美国盟友，

they've all been withdrawn and now it's mostly the Taliban.

均已全部撤走，现在主要是塔利班在控制。

And you actually even get to see the Americans coordinating with the Taliban as well.

你甚至可以看到美国人也在与塔利班合作。

I see. You know, we were mentioning earlier this attack that took place at the airport.

我明白了。我们早些时候提到了发生在机场的袭击事件。

I'm curious if you're hearing from Afghans any response to the U.S. drone strike against the group that claimed responsibility for that attack, the group called ISIS-K?

我想知道，阿富汗人对美国无人机空袭声称对这次袭击负责的ISIS-K组织有何反应？

I mean, of course, the main thing here is skepticism.

当然，这里的主要反应是怀疑。

I mean, it's worth noting that drone strikes in the past in the U.S. — I mean, despite all the trumpeting of results

值得注意的是，美国过去的无人机袭击——尽管所有人都在吹嘘结果，

and despite the Afghan National Army back in the day also doing the same thing in terms of how many Taliban they've killed, et cetera.

尽管阿富汗国民军当时也在这样做，比如宣扬他们击毙了多少塔利班成员等等。

For most Afghans on the ground these drone strikes have never had a real effect — well, other than killing Afghans, right?

但对大多数阿富汗人来说，这些无人机袭击从未产生过真正的效果——除了致阿富汗人死亡以外，对吧？

I mean, civilians all around, I think, at this point, are really quite doubtful of an intelligence situation

我认为，目前周围的平民真的对这种情报态势感到非常怀疑，

where they were able to figure out the quote-unquote facilitator and planner within a day and kill them.

他们能在一天内找出所谓的辅助者和策划者并击毙他们。

Like, the most common response is, you know, if they were able to find them so quickly, then how come they didn't, you know, find them before the attack?

比如，人们最常见的反应是，如果他们能这么快找到他们，那为何在袭击发生前没有找到他们？

Which I think is a fair question.

我认为这是一个很合理的问题。

You know, the day of the attack, you tweeted out that a doctor that you spoke with at one of the hospitals who's been dealing with casualties

袭击发生当天，你在推特上表示，你在一家医院与一名处理伤亡的医生进行了交谈，

described seeing bodies that bore signs of gunshot wounds.

这名医生说他看到了身上有枪伤的尸体。

Is there any clarity thus far on who was doing the shooting there, what was actually happening?

到目前为止，是否清楚谁在那里开枪以及到底发生了什么？

And I ask this in part because, at yesterday's Pentagon briefing, we were told here in the U.S. that this is all still under investigation.

我这样问的部分原因是，在昨天的五角大楼简报会上，我们在美国被告知，这一切仍在调查中。

Well the fact of the matter is — and I don't want to make allegations that aren't substantiated because it's not clear to me.

事实是——我不想提出未经证实的指控，因为我不清楚事情的来龙去脉。

But we have talked to a few people and they seem to indicate at this point that it was — you know, the shooting was mostly from the Americans, right?

但我们采访了一些人，他们似乎表明，开枪的基本上是美国人，对吧？

I mean, there are sort of disparate reports of someone else shooting as well — you know, like, one of the people with ISIS shooting and then blowing themselves up.

有完全不同的报道称其他人也开了枪，一名ISIS成员后在开枪后引爆了自已身上的炸弹。

But really, that's not clear.

但事实上，具体情况尚不清楚。

I mean, what we have heard from other Afghans is that, in the panic of the attack, the American soldiers started shooting.

我们从其他阿富汗人那里了解到的是，在袭击的恐慌中，美国士兵开始开枪。

And when I spoke to the doctors, they were mentioning to me that a lot of the people had injuries to the upper part of their body — you know, in the neck, in the head, et cetera,

当我和医生交谈时，他们提到很多人上半身受伤——枪伤在脖子上、头上等等，

which would indicate that they were being fired upon from a higher position.

这表明他们是从更高的位置被击中的。

Now, again, I mean, it's worth noting that, you know, we need to do much more research on this just to make sure.

现在，值得注意的是，我们需要进行更多研究来确认。

That's Los Angeles Times foreign correspondent Nabih Bulos. Thanks again so much.

以上是《洛杉矶时报》的外国记者纳比·布罗斯带来的报道。非常感谢你。

Thank you for having me.

谢谢你们邀请我。