华盛顿邮报 取得胜利后的亚马逊工会将面临哪些挑战?(2)（在线收听）

So, let's start with Chris, because, as you said, he's this really magnetic figure and seemed to have a massive role in why the first warehouse was successful when it came to unionizing.

那么，让我们从克里斯开始说起，因为，正如你所说，他是一个非常有吸引力的人物，似乎在第一个仓库成立工会取得成功方面发挥了巨大的作用。

Can you tell me a bit about who he is and how he got involved?

你能告诉我他是谁吗？他是如何参与进来的？

Yeah. So, he was an Amazon worker. He'd been with the company almost five years.

嗯。他是亚马逊的一名员工。他在这家公司工作了将近五年。

Right around the beginning of COVID, there started to be some COVID cases in his warehouse, and he led a protest, a walkout that garnered some media attention and that upset Amazon and led Amazon to fire him.

就在新冠肺炎疫情开始的时候，他所在的仓库里开始有一些新冠病毒案件，他领导了一场抗议，一场罢工引起了一些媒体的关注，这让亚马逊感到不安，并导致亚马逊解雇了他。

And, so, after that, he essentially spent a year on a crusade, staging protests outside Jeff Bezos' mansions.

在那之后，他基本上花了一年的时间在一场改革运动上，在杰夫·贝索斯的大厦外举行抗议活动。

Our streets! Our streets! Our streets! Our streets! Our streets! Our streets! Our streets!

我们的街道！我们的街道！我们的街道！我们的街道！我们的街道！我们的街道！我们的街道！

And then, eventually, they ran out of mansions, and Chris set up outside the bus stop and just decided to organize a union on his own.

最终，他们从大厦里跑出来了，克里斯在公共汽车站外成立了一个工会，决定自己组织一个工会。

And I think he thought he could do it better than established unions could, that he understood the workers better, that he understood their needs.

我想他认为自己可以比现有的工会做得更好，他更了解工人，他理解他们的需求。

So he just -- He and and a bunch of his friends who had traveled with him to Bezos' mansions decided they were going to do this on their own.

他--他和他的一群朋友一起去了贝索斯的大厦，他们决定自己去做这件事。

And, I mean, I can imagine that Chris is up against a lot.

我可以想象克里斯面临的挑战很多。

You know, Amazon is this giant company. It's very powerful.

你知道，亚马逊是一家巨型公司。该公司非常强大。

So can you just walk me through the way Amazon has addressed unions in the past and what their tactics have been?

所以你能告诉我亚马逊过去对待工会的方式以及他们的策略是什么吗？

Sure. So, Amazon is is fervently anti-union.

好的。亚马逊是强烈反对工会的。

I don't think they want their workers to be unionized, in part because they cycle through people exceedingly fast.

我认为他们不希望自己的工人加入工会，部分原因是他们员工流动非常快。

So, you know, the turnover in the Staten Island warehouse where Chris was fired is 100% to 150% a year. And to have that kind of --

解雇克里斯的斯塔滕岛仓库的人员流动是100%到150%。有一种--。

Yeah. So, the entire workforce is turning over every eight months.

嗯。整个劳动力每八个月就会轮换一次。

You know, the turnover in those facilities is intentional, I think, in part because they don't have to continue to give people raises over time.

你知道，我认为是故意让这些工厂的人员流动，部分原因是他们不必随着时间的推移继续给员工加薪。

After five years, Amazon will essentially buy you out if you're an hourly worker, give you a lump sum never to work for Amazon again.

五年后，如果你只是个小时工，亚马逊会买断你的工作，给你一笔钱，让你永远不再为亚马逊工作。

So this is not a long-term relationship that they're trying to build with their workforces, and that makes it really hard to unionize.

他们并非试图与员工建立长期关系，这使得成立工会变得非常困难。

So Chris had that against him. He also had a -- You know, it's a trillion-dollar company. He had no money.

所以克里斯对此很不满。 他（杰夫·贝索斯）还拥有——你知道，一个价值万亿美元的公司。 但他却没有钱。

They were going to hire big law firms.

他们打算聘请大型律师事务所。

They were going to hire anti-union consultants to come in and talk to the workers and convince them not to unionize. They were going to go after him.

他们打算聘请反工会顾问进来与工人交谈，说服他们不要成立工会。他们要去抓他。

So he had a lot of disadvantages.

所以他处于略势地位。