华盛顿邮报 谁应该为气候灾难买单？(3)（在线收听）

    But I did want to dig in a little more deeply into the idea of a fund.

    但我确实想更深入地探讨一下基金的概念。

    And I'm curious, like, what is that conversation like there?

    我很好奇，你们的对话是什么样的?

    Is it -- I would imagine it's not an easy one, right?

    我想这不是一个简单的问题，对吧?

    Yeah, I mean, I think -- So, you know, the logic behind loss and damage is that the countries that are experiencing the worst impacts of climate change are not the countries that have contributed most to emissions. Right?

    是的，我的意思是，我认为——损失和损坏背后的逻辑是，正在经受气候变化影响最严重的国家并不是排放最多的国家。对吧?

    Pakistan's current level of emissions is less than 1% of, like, the global annual total.

    巴基斯坦目前的排放水平不到全球年排放总量的1%。

    The emissions from the entire continent of Africa are less than 4% of the global total.

    整个非洲大陆的排放量不到全球排放总量的4%。

    And yet that continent is experiencing some of the worst impacts of climate change.

    然而，非洲大陆正在经历气候变化的一些最严重的影响。

    Yeah, and they say, like, We are suffering. Right? We are suffering in very real ways. Lives are being lost. Livelihoods are being destroyed from a problem we didn't cause.

    是啊，他们会说，我们在受苦。对吧? 我们正在真真切切地受苦。生命正在逝去。生计正被一个不是我们造成的问题毁掉。

    And the U.S. and the E.U. combined are responsible for about half of all of the -- more than half of all the carbon that's in the atmosphere from human activities since the Industrial Revolution began.

    自工业革命开始以来，美国和欧盟要一起对大气中人类活动产生的一半以上的碳排放负责。

    And so they say, you know, there's an obligation -- a moral obligation.

    所以，他们说，这是一种义务，一种道德义务。

    And there's just, you know, some people would argue, a legal obligation for the U.S. and the E.U. and other, you know, high-emitting countries to provide some financial compensation for the damage that climate change has caused.

    有些人会辩称，美国、欧盟和其他高排放国家有法律义务为气候变化造成的破坏提供一些经济补偿。

    And that's obviously quite fraught -- right? -- because the damage that climate change causes is amounts in the trillions.

    这显然很令人担忧，对吧?——因为气候变化造成的破坏是数以万计的。

    The bill keeps getting higher with every year that we fail to reduce emissions.

    我们减排失败的账单一年比一年高。

    And wealthy nations are quite worried about the idea of being held liable for all of that damage, particularly the U.S.

    富裕国家非常担心自己要为所有的损失负责，尤其是美国。

    They've argued for years, you know, really trying to tweak the language around loss and damage that winds up in these agreements, to clarify that it doesn't imply compensation and it doesn't imply liability.

    他们争论了多年，试图调整协议中关于损失和损害的措辞，以澄清这并不意味着赔偿，也不意味着责任。

    Where is this conversation right now about an actual fund?

    关于真正基金的谈话进行到哪里了？

    Where is that money going to come from?

    这些钱从哪里获取?

    What are some of the ideas that are being discussed right now?

    现在正在讨论的一些想法是什么?

    Yeah, I mean, I think one of the most interesting, although quite politically challenging, ideas that's out there is actually something that was raised by the U.N. secretary-general himself, which is that he has called for nations to tax windfall profits of fossil-fuel companies and direct that money towards the loss-and-damage fund.

    我认为最有趣的想法之一，虽然具有相当大的政治挑战性，这一想法实际上是由联合国秘书长本人提出的，他呼吁各国对化石燃料公司的暴利征税，并将这笔钱用于损失和损害基金。

    I mean, I've been talking to a lot of people about loss and damage.

    我是说，我一直在采访很多人关于损失和伤害的想法。

    Certainly, you know, one of the most compelling voices is the lead negotiator for Pakistan, Ambassador Munir Akram, who also happens to be the chair of the G77, this group of developing nations.

    当然，最令人信服的声音之一是巴基斯坦的首席谈判代表穆尼尔·阿克拉姆大使，他恰巧也是G77组织(发展中国家组织)的主席。

    You know, the chair of these negotiating groups rotates, and this is happens to be Pakistan's turn.

    这些谈判小组的主席轮流担任，而这次恰好轮到巴基斯坦。

    But Ambassador Akram is actually from Sindh, which is one of the provinces that was hardest hit by these floods.

    阿克拉姆大使实际上来自信德省(巴基斯坦东南部省份)，信德省是受洪灾影响最严重的省份之一。