华盛顿邮报 特朗普密友麦卡锡怎么了？(2)（在线收听）

    And why is that? Why don't they want McCarthy as speaker?

    为什么会这样呢? 为什么他们不想让麦卡锡当议长?

    Yeah. So, some of the initial kind of five to six holdouts basically just made the argument that this was about shaking up the status quo.

    最初的五到六名反对者基本上只是提出了一个论点，即这是为了改变现状。

    I'm talking here about Congressman Matt Gaetz especially, who was maybe the earliest to emerge as a McCarthy -- "never-McCarthy" vote.

    我在这里特别提一下国会议员马特·盖兹，他可能是最早冒出来反对麦卡锡当选的人。

    I'm nominating Jim Jordan. Jim Jordan is humble perhaps today, humble to a fault.

    我提名吉姆·乔丹。吉姆·乔丹现在地位很低，低到一定地步。

    Maybe the right person for the job of speaker of the House isn't someone who wants it so bad.

    也许众议院议长的合适人选并不是一个非常想要这个职位的人。

    Maybe the right person for the job of speaker of the House isn't someone who has sold shares of themself for more than a decade to get it.

    也许众议院议长一职的合适人选不是一个十多年来一直在出售自己股份以获得这一职位的人。

    Others, like Congressman Bob Good from Virginia, Matt Rosendale from Montana, Andy Biggs from Arizona, they focused more on the House rules and changing -- you know, the changes that need to be made before they could support somebody like McCarthy.

    像弗吉尼亚州的国会议员鲍勃·古德，蒙大拿州的马特·罗森代尔，亚利桑那州的安迪·比格斯一样的其他人，他们更关注众议院的规则和变化--你知道，在他们支持麦卡锡这样的人之前，需要作出改变。

    And then we had kind of the holdouts who didn't really say a whole lot before but wound up voting against him, who were still kind of learning what their issues with him are.

    有一些反对者，他们之前对此并没有说很多，但却最终投了反对他的票，这些人仍在了解他们与他之间的问题是什么。

    And certainly McCarthy wants to know what their issues with him are.

    当然，麦卡锡也想知道他们和他之间有什么问题。

    But again, there are so many different dynamics here that winning over all of these people, doing any one, two, three or even five things is going to be very difficult.

    但是，有太多不同的变革动力，要赢得所有这些人的支持，做任何一件事，乃至两件事，三件事，甚至五件事都是非常困难的。

    So, you know, before this vote, Kevin McCarthy put a number of concessions in his House rules package, and clearly, that didn't seem to have done him much good.

    在这次投票之前，凯文·麦卡锡在众议院整套规则中做出了一些让步，显然，这似乎并没有给他带来多少好处。

    He can try to go farther, but on some level, for some of these members, it seems to be kind of that status-quo question, and that's not something that Kevin McCarthy is very capable of solving at this point.

    他可以尝试走得更远，但在某种程度上，对其中一些成员来说，这似乎是一种现状问题，这不是凯文·麦卡锡目前能力解决的问题。

    Okay. And tell me more about that status-quo question.

    好。详细讲讲关于现状的问题。

    Yeah, I mean, a lot of this is coming from the evolution of the Republican Party, starting in the Tea Party era around the 2009, 2010 election year.

    好。这在很大程度上源于共和党的演变，始于茶党(草根运动)时代，大致发生在2009年和2010年的大选年。

    There became a premium in the Republican Party on sticking it to the establishment.

    在共和党内，坚持草根运动对建制派来说是一种奖励。

    And in some ways, the establishment is the leadership of the Republican Party.

    在某些方面，建制派是共和党的领导层。

    And so we don't talk too much about the Tea Party these days, but really the ethos of that movement lives on in a lot of ways, and that's created a situation in which some of these members ran for Congress on opposing leadership, trying to shake things up in the Republican Party.

    我们现在不怎么谈论茶党了，但这种运动精神仍存在于各个方面，这就造成了这样一种情况，其中一些议员竞选国会反对领导层，试图改变共和党的格局。

    Others may just genuinely want there to be some changes in how the House conducts its business, to empower the rank and file to allow them to remove a speaker, things like that.

    其他议员可能只是真心希望众议院的运作方式有所改变，能赋予普通议员权力，允许他们有诸如罢免议长的权力。

    I think there's a lot of very different reasons, but that also makes it more difficult for Kevin McCarthy because it's not like he can focus on one thing to solve this problem for himself.

    我认为存在很多不同的原因，但这也让凯文·麦卡锡变得更加困难，因为他不可能只专注一件事就能解决问题。