美国国家公共电台 NPR--Mike Pence, pondering a presidential run, condemns Trump's rhetoric on Jan. 6

Mike Pence, pondering a presidential run, condemns¹ Trump²'s rhetoric³ on Jan. 6

Transcript⁴

Former Vice⁵ President Mike Pence's new memoir⁶ recounts his life up to the moment when he refused to overturn the 2020 election defeat of then-President Donald Trump.

So Help Me God is the kind of polished life story that is often a preliminary for a presidential run, which Pence is considering. Coincidentally or not, the book's release date, Nov. 15, was exactly the date that Trump declared his run for the presidency⁷ in 2024.

Trump's announcement competed with but did not entirely⁸ drown out Pence, who has given interviews about his book to multiple networks and newspapers in recent weeks.

It was revealing that, after the midterm election defeat of numerous high-profile candidates who rejected the 2020 election results, Trump's announcement speech did not directly mention his claims about his defeat — a subject he'd discussed constantly for two years, including in a January interview with NPR. Instead, Pence is the one discussing it, saying that Trump was "wrong" and that they have gone "our separate ways."

Pence faces an extraordinary challenge as a political leader whose national reputation is closely tied to the record of the Trump administration but who says the Constitution and his conscience would not allow him to follow Trump's ultimate demand.

The former vice president met an NPR team at the law library of the Indiana state capitol: a fitting spot, both because he once served as the state's governor and because upholding the law is now at the center of the story he has to tell.

For part of the 42-minute conversation, Pence recounted the events of Jan. 6, 2021, when he presided over the ceremonial counting of electoral votes from the 2020 presidential election.

When a mob disrupted the proceedings⁹, Pence retreated with family members to an office within the U.S. Capitol and then to an underground parking garage, but refused to flee the building.

"It just infuriated me," he said, and once police had restored control of the building, he managed that evening to preside over the completion of the vote count. Eventually he learned that many members of the mob, egged on by a tweet from the president, had chanted to hang him.

"President Trump was wrong, and his words and actions that day were reckless," Pence said. "They endangered my family and people at the Capitol building. And I'll never hold any other view."

Q. Is Trump a good man?

A. “Only God knows.”

That's a far cry from the speech that Pence, chosen as Trump's running mate, gave at the 2016 Republican National Convention, in which he called Trump a "good man."

Asked whether he still considers Trump a good man, Pence replied at considerable length without ever saying that he did. He said only that Trump had authored important achievements but was "wrong" on Jan. 6.

"I truly do believe that only God knows our hearts," he added. "And I'll leave it to others to make their own judgments¹⁰."

Pence spoke¹¹ with NPR's Morning Edition about his faith, his political trajectory¹² and where he thinks he and his party might be headed next. The full transcript of that conversation can be found here.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

I'm pro-life. I don't apologize for it. I'll always cherish the fact that I was vice president in the administration that appointed three of the justices of the Supreme¹³ Court that gave us a new beginning for life, that returned the question of abortion¹⁴ to the states and to the American people, where it belongs. ... I said in the wake of the Dobbs decision that we haven't come to the end — we've come to the end of the beginning. And I'm determined¹⁵ in however many years I have left on this earth to be a voice for the unborn and to work every day to restore the sanctity of life to the center of American law. ... Whatever role we're in, I'll look to be a voice for the right to life.

On the fact that midterm voters were generally favorable to abortion rights

The common denominator for me was that Republicans who articulated their position on the right to life did well. Republicans who did not articulate their position and allowed their position to be defined did not do as well. ... I want to concede a point. We have a ways to go in this issue. But I believe that in the most prosperous nation on Earth, we ought to be a nation that is grounded in the unalienable right to life and makes it possible for women in crisis pregnancies¹⁶ to go to term or raise their child or give their child up for adoption¹⁷. But I also think it's just as important, as you see states advance pro-life legislation, that they advance legislation not just for the unborn, but for the newborn.

On why, as he says in his book, he thinks his faith has been "misunderstood"

When my wife was attacked for teaching at a Christian¹⁸ school, when one media outlet¹⁹ after another ridiculed²⁰ our Christian faith from time to time, I was always struck by that. Because as I traveled around America, the words I most often heard, and I heard them every day, where people would reach out across a rope line or stop me on a street corner and say, "I'm praying for you." I mean, this is a nation of faith, of different faiths. I'm a born-again Christian, raised in a wonderful Catholic home. But the American people cherish faith in the overwhelming majority, and yet it seemed to be a subject of fascination²¹ by some in the liberal media.

On whether he thinks people misunderstand his stance on LGBTQ issues

I don't believe anyone should ever be harassed²² or discriminated²³ against because of who they are, who they love or what they believe. But that being said, there are profound implications on this question, as Justice Kennedy wrote in the Obergefell decision, that bear upon religious freedom — and the courts have been sorting through that ever since. I will tell you, I've been encouraged that the Supreme Court has been striking a balance on the issues of religious liberty and individual rights, and I trust that the conservatives on the court will continue to do that. But if there's anything people don't understand well about the Pences is ... to know our family, we love everybody. My faith tells me to love your neighbor as yourself. And that's something we aspire²⁴ to do every day, whether we agree with every view or every value of the people that we meet.

On what Pence would want to accomplish if elected president

Traveling around this country, what I've heard from the American people is they want to get back to the policies of the Trump-Pence administration: of a strong military, of free market economics, conservatives on our courts, America standing²⁵ with our allies, standing up to our enemies. But I think they long for leadership that could unite our country around our highest ideals and demonstrate the kind of respect and civility that the American people show each other every day.

1 condemns   

v.（通常因道义上的原因而）谴责( condemn的第三人称单数 )；宣判；宣布…不能使用；迫使…陷于不幸的境地

参考例句：

• Her widowhood condemns her to a lonely old age. 守寡使她不得不过着孤独的晚年生活。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The public opinion condemns prostitution. 公众舆论遣责卖淫。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》

2 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

3 rhetoric   

n.修辞学，浮夸之言语

参考例句：

• Do you know something about rhetoric?你懂点修辞学吗？
• Behind all the rhetoric,his relations with the army are dangerously poised.在冠冕堂皇的言辞背后，他和军队的关系岌岌可危。

4 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

5 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

6 memoir   

n.[pl.]回忆录，自传；记事录

参考例句：

• He has just published a memoir in honour of his captain.他刚刚出了一本传记来纪念他的队长。
• In her memoir,the actress wrote about the bittersweet memories of her first love.在那个女演员的自传中，她写到了自己苦乐掺半的初恋。

7 presidency   

n.总统(校长，总经理)的职位(任期)

参考例句：

• Roosevelt was elected four times to the presidency of the United States.罗斯福连续当选四届美国总统。
• Two candidates are emerging as contestants for the presidency.两位候选人最终成为总统职位竞争者。

8 entirely   

ad.全部地，完整地；完全地，彻底地

参考例句：

• The fire was entirely caused by their neglect of duty. 那场火灾完全是由于他们失职而引起的。
• His life was entirely given up to the educational work. 他的一生统统献给了教育工作。

9 proceedings   

n.进程，过程，议程；诉讼(程序)；公报

参考例句：

• He was released on bail pending committal proceedings. 他交保获释正在候审。
• to initiate legal proceedings against sb 对某人提起诉讼

10 judgments   

判断( judgment的名词复数 )； 鉴定； 评价； 审判

参考例句：

• A peculiar austerity marked his judgments of modern life. 他对现代生活的批评带着一种特殊的苛刻。
• He is swift with his judgments. 他判断迅速。

11 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

12 trajectory   

n.弹道，轨道

参考例句：

• It is not difficult to sketch the subsequent trajectory.很容易描绘出它们最终的轨迹。
• The path followed by a projectile is called its trajectory.抛物体所循的路径称为它的轨道。

13 supreme   

adj.极度的，最重要的；至高的，最高的

参考例句：

• It was the supreme moment in his life.那是他一生中最重要的时刻。
• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。

14 abortion   

n.流产，堕胎

参考例句：

• She had an abortion at the women's health clinic.她在妇女保健医院做了流产手术。
• A number of considerations have led her to have a wilful abortion.多种考虑使她执意堕胎。

15 determined   

adj.坚定的；有决心的

参考例句：

• I have determined on going to Tibet after graduation.我已决定毕业后去西藏。
• He determined to view the rooms behind the office.他决定查看一下办公室后面的房间。

16 pregnancies   

怀孕，妊娠( pregnancy的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Since the wartime population needed replenishment, pregnancies were a good sign. 最后一桩倒不失为好现象，战时人口正该补充。
• She's had three pregnancies in four years. 她在四年中怀孕叁次。

17 adoption   

n.采用，采纳，通过；收养

参考例句：

• An adoption agency had sent the boys to two different families.一个收养机构把他们送给两个不同的家庭。
• The adoption of this policy would relieve them of a tremendous burden.采取这一政策会给他们解除一个巨大的负担。

18 Christian   

adj.基督教徒的；n.基督教徒

参考例句：

• They always addressed each other by their Christian name.他们总是以教名互相称呼。
• His mother is a sincere Christian.他母亲是个虔诚的基督教徒。

19 outlet   

n.出口/路；销路；批发商店；通风口；发泄

参考例句：

• The outlet of a water pipe was blocked.水管的出水口堵住了。
• Running is a good outlet for his energy.跑步是他发泄过剩精力的好方法。

20 ridiculed   

v.嘲笑，嘲弄，奚落( ridicule的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• Biosphere 2 was ultimately ridiculed as a research debade, as exfravagant pseudoscience. 生物圈2号最终被讥讽为科研上的大失败，代价是昂贵的伪科学。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• She ridiculed his insatiable greed. 她嘲笑他的贪得无厌。 来自《简明英汉词典》

21 fascination   

n.令人着迷的事物，魅力，迷恋

参考例句：

• He had a deep fascination with all forms of transport.他对所有的运输工具都很着迷。
• His letters have been a source of fascination to a wide audience.广大观众一直迷恋于他的来信。

22 harassed   

adj. 疲倦的，厌烦的 动词harass的过去式和过去分词

参考例句：

• He has complained of being harassed by the police. 他投诉受到警方侵扰。
• harassed mothers with their children 带着孩子的疲惫不堪的母亲们

23 discriminated   

分别，辨别，区分( discriminate的过去式和过去分词 )； 歧视，有差别地对待

参考例句：

• His great size discriminated him from his followers. 他的宽广身材使他不同于他的部下。
• Should be a person that has second liver virus discriminated against? 一个患有乙肝病毒的人是不是就应该被人歧视？

24 aspire   

vi.(to，after)渴望，追求，有志于

参考例句：

• Living together with you is what I aspire toward in my life.和你一起生活是我一生最大的愿望。
• I aspire to be an innovator not a follower.我迫切希望能变成个开创者而不是跟随者。

25 standing   

n.持续，地位；adj.永久的，不动的，直立的，不流动的

参考例句：

• After the earthquake only a few houses were left standing.地震过后只有几幢房屋还立着。
• They're standing out against any change in the law.他们坚决反对对法律做任何修改。