美国国家公共电台 NPR--The U.S. has pledged nearly $2 billion in new military aid to Ukraine

The U.S. has pledged nearly $2 billion in new military aid to Ukraine

Transcript¹

The aid package includes a Patriot² missile system. NPR's Leila Fadel talks to retired³ Army Maj. Mike Lyons about criticism of the decision, which some fear will escalate⁴ the war with Russia.

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

The U.S. just pledged nearly $2 billion in new military aid to Ukraine. The package includes a sophisticated Patriot missile battery. During this week's surprise visit to Washington and in a news conference with President Biden, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy joked through an interpreter that one might not be enough.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: (Through interpreter) What's going to happen after Patriots⁵ are installed? After that, we will send another signal to President Biden that we would like to get more Patriots.

(LAUGHTER)

FADEL: The Kremlin called the new shipment a provocative⁶ step and warned of unpredictable consequences. And some in the U.S. have expressed skepticism about both the cost and the effectiveness. Among them, retired U.S. Army Major Mike Lyons. He's with us this morning. Good morning, Major.

MIKE LYONS: Hey. Good morning. Thanks for having me.

FADEL: Thank you for being here. So Ukraine has been pleading for this kind of defense⁷ system in the face of Russia's air force power, its missile attacks. Why are you worried about providing this to them?

LYONS: Well, a couple of things. First of all, I don't think it's enough, in that...

FADEL: Yeah.

LYONS: ...The Patriot missile system would only protect, let's say, one-fifth of the landmass of Ukraine. The size of Ukraine's very large. And this will create a false sense of security for them in some ways. They'll have to decide to put it only in a certain location, likely in Kyiv, where it will protect just the capital, versus⁸ critical infrastructure⁹, where the Russians are going to target most of their cruise missiles now, I think, going forward with this system in place. It's the most sophisticated one in the world. So if we're going to give them this system, we have to give them enough where they can at least protect their own country with.

FADEL: So is the answer to give them more?

LYONS: Likely. Likely Patriot missiles, which are defensive¹⁰ in nature. Now, there is still risk here. The risk is that these Patriot missiles will acquire a Russian target of an airplane, let's say, a fighter plane. And they chase. And what that means is they'll - they could potentially cross over the border between Ukraine and Russia and acquire a target in Russian territory. I think that's what America is concerned about. The administration thinks that if U.S. military power is used to acquire Russian targets across - over Russia, I think that's a level of escalation¹¹ that they're really uncomfortable with.

FADEL: And what could happen if a missile were to chase into Russian airspace like that?

LYONS: If it acquires that target, you now have, potentially, you know, American military hardware using against Russian military hardware over Russia. Russia could say that's an act of war. And they could likely escalate, perhaps launch a missile against known U.S. forces that are in Poland or other NATO countries that are there. So it could lead to an escalation. I think that's what the administration is concerned about.

FADEL: Now, in your view, though, do you think that the Patriot system should just not be given to Ukraine at all? Or what's the answer here?

LYONS: No, I think the system is appropriate. It's still fundamentally defensive in nature.

FADEL: OK.

LYONS: And that's the issue here. All of the systems that we provided to them are defensive. They're not necessarily going to help Ukraine win on the ground in particular. They need tanks. They need F-16s. They need other offensive platforms - long-range missile systems, another example. So I do think that the system is defensive in nature, that it can be programmed to ensure that it doesn't fly over Russian airspace. But we just haven't given them enough. We've given them a false sense of security with it.

FADEL: This Patriot system, it's complicated, needs a lot of training - typically six month. It's being - six months. It's being sped up in this case to just two months. I mean, is it also too late that it's being sent?

LYONS: No, it might be. We're likely training their soldiers now in third world countries, reports are showing, and using training simulations. But it is complex. It has a fire direction system which calculates the firing solutions, well advanced radar¹², which can pick up multiple targets at one time. So it is complex. It's not a video game. I think that is the other concern, that if we were going to do this, again, from a strategic perspective, we should have done it months ago and had it in place for the wintertime.

FADEL: Are you concerned at all that, you know, as Russia has said - they've described it as an escalatory step, even though the administration and you have described this as a defensive system. Are you worried that just providing the Patriot system could escalate Russia's war?

LYONS: It can. But as - what's happening now on the ground is the Ukraine military is literally¹³ destroying Russia's conventional forces, and something we just didn't expect 300 days into the war at this point. So it gets back to, what's Russia's response going to be? It'll have to be strategic. And it'll have to really start - it'll tripwire something that they probably can't imagine or can't control. So if they had a way that they could respond tactically, perhaps that would be the case. I just don't think that they have that. So I'm not necessarily worried about this escalating¹⁴ it from their perspective just from air defense systems. There are other things we could do clearly, though, that they would think would be escalatory.

FADEL: You mentioned - just in the few seconds we have left - that the Ukrainian forces have done well in the face of Russia's military. And the Patriot system might provide a false sense of security. What kind of aid should the U.S. be delivering in this moment?

LYONS: Well, I think the United States has got to look at what we can do to help them take the Black Sea forces out in Crimea, offensive weapons on the ground, perhaps missile systems that will allow them to go on the offensive. That's going to be the difference. I think we're waiting to see winter and see how winter goes for them.

FADEL: Retired U.S. Army Major Mike Lyons, thanks so much for your time. Happy holidays.

LYONS: Thanks for having me.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 patriot   

n.爱国者，爱国主义者

参考例句：

• He avowed himself a patriot.他自称自己是爱国者。
• He is a patriot who has won the admiration of the French already.他是一个已经赢得法国人敬仰的爱国者。

3 retired   

adj.隐退的，退休的，退役的

参考例句：

• The old man retired to the country for rest.这位老人下乡休息去了。
• Many retired people take up gardening as a hobby.许多退休的人都以从事园艺为嗜好。

4 escalate   

v.(使)逐步增长(或发展)，(使)逐步升级

参考例句：

• It would tempt Israel's neighbors to escalate their demands.它将诱使以色列的邻国不断把他们的要求升级。
• Defeat could cause one side or other to escalate the conflict.失败可能会导致其中一方将冲突升级。

5 patriots   

爱国者，爱国主义者( patriot的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Abraham Lincoln was a fine type of the American patriots. 亚伯拉罕·林肯是美国爱国者的优秀典型。
• These patriots would fight to death before they surrendered. 这些爱国者宁愿战斗到死，也不愿投降。

6 provocative   

adj.挑衅的，煽动的，刺激的，挑逗的

参考例句：

• She wore a very provocative dress.她穿了一件非常性感的裙子。
• His provocative words only fueled the argument further.他的挑衅性讲话只能使争论进一步激化。

7 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

8 versus   

prep.以…为对手，对；与…相比之下

参考例句：

• The big match tonight is England versus Spain.今晚的大赛是英格兰对西班牙。
• The most exciting game was Harvard versus Yale.最富紧张刺激的球赛是哈佛队对耶鲁队。

9 infrastructure   

n.下部构造，下部组织，基础结构，基础设施

参考例句：

• We should step up the development of infrastructure for research.加强科学基础设施建设。
• We should strengthen cultural infrastructure and boost various types of popular culture.加强文化基础设施建设，发展各类群众文化。

10 defensive   

adj.防御的；防卫的；防守的

参考例句：

• Their questions about the money put her on the defensive.他们问到钱的问题，使她警觉起来。
• The Government hastily organized defensive measures against the raids.政府急忙布置了防卫措施抵御空袭。

11 escalation   

n.扩大，增加

参考例句：

• The threat of nuclear escalation remains. 核升级的威胁仍旧存在。 来自辞典例句
• Escalation is thus an aspect of deterrence and of crisis management. 因此逐步升级是威慑和危机处理的一个方面。 来自辞典例句

12 radar   

n.雷达，无线电探测器

参考例句：

• They are following the flight of an aircraft by radar.他们正在用雷达追踪一架飞机的飞行。
• Enemy ships were detected on the radar.敌舰的影像已显现在雷达上。

13 literally   

adv.照字面意义，逐字地；确实

参考例句：

• He translated the passage literally.他逐字逐句地翻译这段文字。
• Sometimes she would not sit down till she was literally faint.有时候，她不走到真正要昏厥了，决不肯坐下来。

14 escalating   

v.（使）逐步升级( escalate的现在分词 )；（使）逐步扩大；（使）更高；（使）更大

参考例句：

• The cost of living is escalating. 生活费用在迅速上涨。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The cost of living is escalating in the country. 这个国家的生活费用在上涨。 来自辞典例句