美国国家公共电台 NPR--The rise of the far-right in France

The rise of the far-right in France

Transcript¹

NPR's Leila Fadel talks to University of Nice professor Vincent Martigny about the vote that forced a runoff between France's president and a far-right candidate.

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

For more on what's driving this shift to the right in French politics, we turn to Vincent Martigny. He's a political science professor at the University of Nice. Thank you for being here.

VINCE MARTIGNY: Yeah, thanks for inviting².

FADEL: So, professor, Emmanuel Macron beat Marine³ Le Pen by more than 30 points in the 2017 presidential runoff. Now in the first round of voting, only a few percentage points separate them. What's changed about national sentiment in France and where voters are?

MARTIGNY: I don't know if there's something that changed on national sentiment, but clearly, something has changed for Emmanuel Macron himself.

FADEL: Yeah.

MARTIGNY: In 2017, he presented novelty, like a young candidate and 40, a new face for France, somebody who would appear as, let's say, cleaning the whole political space from the old politician and embodying⁴ a new form, a new way of doing politics. Five years later, well, he's been a president, so he has a - let's say, a series of action of successes but also failures. And his image has been crystallizing in the last five years. And today, you have this feeling of novelty - on the contrary, the feeling that Emmanuel Macron entered politics by saying that left and right didn't matter, but he clearly appeared as a center-right candidate, which was for the disappointment of a large part of the working class, for example, who would be more voting for the left historically, for example.

FADEL: So the results are more about how people are feeling about Macron right now?

MARTIGNY: Well, that's the problem. Five years ago, there was a, let's say, plebiscite for Macron because they believed that Marine Le Pen was a danger. And today, there's a double - what we call in political science double polarization. That's to say that people are very polarized around Marine Le Pen still but also very much polarized around Macron. Many people, as your correspondent in Paris said, really much resents Emmanuel Macron for being a president of the upper class, a president of the rich or a president of the right. And these voters from the traditional left who decided⁵ to vote for Jean-Luc Melenchon, the third candidate from the left in the first round, may abstain⁶ or, worse, vote for Marine Le Pen.

FADEL: Let's talk about the polarization you mentioned. The weekend's vote seems to indicate French voters have drifted to the extreme on both sides between Le Pen and Eric Zemmour on the far right and Jean-Luc Melenchon, the far-left candidate who came in third. French voters cast more than 50% of ballots⁷ for more extreme candidates, shall we say. Why?

MARTIGNY: Well, I think that's partly an illusion, to be honest.

FADEL: OK.

MARTIGNY: It's true that Marine Le Pen is consolidating⁸ a pool of the extreme right that represents one-third of the electorate⁹. It was already the case in 2017. You know, altogether, she amounted for 33% or sort of big third - 35% of the electorate in 2017. As for Mr. Melenchon, I think even though he's identified with the far left, many Social Democrats¹⁰ in France have been choosing what appeared as the most efficient candidates to reach the second round. They don't especially support his policy or his views. They just believe this out of efficiency - it was important to vote for a candidate that could make it for the left against Emmanuel Macron the second round in order to avoid this second round between Marine Le Pen and Mr. Macron. So let's not think too quickly that there would be a radicalization of left-wing voters. I think that these votes that have been deciding to go on Mr. Melenchon are just temporary and that this reconstruction¹¹ of French politics is still an ongoing¹² process.

FADEL: Le Pen has worked to redefine her platform and image to be a bit more moderate. She talks more about inclusion than immigration. But does her political philosophy match the pivot¹³ in her message?

MARTIGNY: Well, the thing is that I think her platform didn't change at all. She remains¹⁴ an extreme-right candidate with a nationalistic, xenophobic, strong dimension. But she also appears as a candidate like she was five years ago but in more - she performed it better as a candidate for the losers of globalization, as we call it. Of course, when I say losers, I'm not having a moral intention by saying that but rather than she appears to those who are left behind of European construction or globalization, these workers that can't compete on the international market. And these people - they are very many people in France. And they feel that there's only one candidate who support them, who understands them. That's Marine Le Pen.

And I think that's the main strength, this capacity to mobilize the working class, these people who are really left behind society, especially against a president that appears the very opposite, a president of the winners of society, winners in a sense that those who have the most, those who will benefit the most from the internationalization of French economy. And, of course, these two Frances will confront one another in two weeks, and the result is still undecided.

FADEL: Did Macron spend time on these national issues, these kitchen-table issues about the economy, inflation?

MARTIGNY: Well, that's the problem. Not at all. He didn't campaign. He hardly campaigned. As your correspondent mentioned...

FADEL: Right.

MARTIGNY: ...He hardly campaigned. I think when the war in Ukraine started, his popularity raised to 31%. So people - he believed in the first round, that would be a piece of cake. In a certain way, the election wouldn't happen. And that is also the fact that these successes on the economic dimension would be enough to guarantee him a reelection. And so he thought that it was possible for him not to campaign. And he concentrated on the war in Ukraine. But when the rally-around-the-flag syndrome¹⁵ stopped - and it did, partly - well, actually, people could see that it missed this democratic rendezvous¹⁶ with the French and today will have to struggle very much to show that, eventually, is a president who cares for his own people, and he has concrete solutions to propose for the next five years. It's one thing to be reelected, which - it is probable. It's probable that Mr. Macron will be reelected. But it's another thing to be able to rule for the next five years, considering that there will be general elections for the parliament in two months. And then nothing says that Mr. Macron would win them.

FADEL: Now, if Le Pen were to win, which is a possibility, it would be the first far-right presidency¹⁷ in French history. Does this moment surprise you at all?

MARTIGNY: The moment in which we are is not really surprising. The National Front in this country in the extreme right has always represented a strong trend of public opinion, especially in a country that is moving fast, is very international, once again, for the reason I mentioned earlier. I think that would be a huge surprise if Mrs. Le Pen could win. I think it would be the consequence of an institutional system that is not functioning very well because in reality, you don't have 50 plus 1% of the French population supports the extreme right. That's not true. What is the case is that the presidential election creates such a level of polarization that it creates some negative consequences or, let's say, side effects. That's allowed for the - for such a possibility.

FADEL: Vincent Martigny is a political science professor at the University of Nice.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 inviting   

adj.诱人的，引人注目的

参考例句：

• An inviting smell of coffee wafted into the room.一股诱人的咖啡香味飘进了房间。
• The kitchen smelled warm and inviting and blessedly familiar.这间厨房的味道温暖诱人，使人感到亲切温馨。

3 marine   

adj.海的；海生的；航海的；海事的；n.水兵

参考例句：

• Marine creatures are those which live in the sea. 海洋生物是生存在海里的生物。
• When the war broke out,he volunteered for the Marine Corps.战争爆发时，他自愿参加了海军陆战队。

4 embodying   

v.表现( embody的现在分词 )；象征；包括；包含

参考例句：

• Every instrument constitutes an independent contract embodying a payment obligation. 每张票据都构成一份独立的体现支付义务的合同。 来自口语例句
• Fowth, The aesthetical transcendency and the beauty embodying the man's liberty. \" 第四部分：审美的超越和作为人类自由最终体现的“美”。 来自互联网

5 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

6 abstain   

v.自制，戒绝，弃权，避免

参考例句：

• His doctor ordered him to abstain from beer and wine.他的医生嘱咐他戒酒。
• Three Conservative MPs abstained in the vote.三位保守党下院议员投了弃权票。

7 ballots   

n.投票表决( ballot的名词复数 )；选举；选票；投票总数v.（使）投票表决( ballot的第三人称单数 )

参考例句：

• They're counting the ballots. 他们正在计算选票。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The news of rigged ballots has rubbed off much of the shine of their election victory. 他们操纵选票的消息使他们在选举中获得的胜利大为减色。 来自《简明英汉词典》

8 consolidating   

v.（使）巩固， （使）加强( consolidate的现在分词 )；（使）合并

参考例句：

• These measures are meant for consolidating the system of basic medical care. 这些举措旨在夯实基层医疗体系，让老百姓看大病不必出远门。 来自互联网
• We are consolidating the Chinese and English versions of our homepage. 我们将为您提供中英文版本一起的主页。 来自互联网

9 electorate   

n.全体选民；选区

参考例句：

• The government was responsible to the electorate.政府对全体选民负责。
• He has the backing of almost a quarter of the electorate.他得到了几乎1/4选民的支持。

10 democrats   

n.民主主义者，民主人士( democrat的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The Democrats held a pep rally on Capitol Hill yesterday. 民主党昨天在国会山召开了竞选誓师大会。
• The democrats organize a filibuster in the senate. 民主党党员组织了阻挠议事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

11 reconstruction   

n.重建，再现，复原

参考例句：

• The country faces a huge task of national reconstruction following the war.战后，该国面临着重建家园的艰巨任务。
• In the period of reconstruction,technique decides everything.在重建时期，技术决定一切。

12 ongoing   

adj.进行中的，前进的

参考例句：

• The problem is ongoing.这个问题尚未解决。
• The issues raised in the report relate directly to Age Concern's ongoing work in this area.报告中提出的问题与“关心老人”组织在这方面正在做的工作有直接的关系。

13 pivot   

v.在枢轴上转动；装枢轴，枢轴；adj.枢轴的

参考例句：

• She is the central pivot of creation and represents the feminine aspect in all things.她是创造的中心枢轴，表现出万物的女性面貌。
• If a spring is present,the hand wheel will pivot on the spring.如果有弹簧，手轮的枢轴会装在弹簧上。

14 remains   

n.剩余物，残留物；遗体，遗迹

参考例句：

• He ate the remains of food hungrily.他狼吞虎咽地吃剩余的食物。
• The remains of the meal were fed to the dog.残羹剩饭喂狗了。

15 syndrome   

n.综合病症；并存特性

参考例句：

• The Institute says that an unidentified virus is to blame for the syndrome. 该研究所表示,引起这种综合症的是一种尚未确认的病毒。
• Results indicated that 11 fetuses had Down syndrome. 结果表明有11个胎儿患有唐氏综合征。

16 rendezvous   

n.约会，约会地点，汇合点；vi.汇合，集合；vt.使汇合，使在汇合地点相遇

参考例句：

• She made the rendezvous with only minutes to spare.她还差几分钟时才来赴约。
• I have a rendezvous with Peter at a restaurant on the harbour.我和彼得在海港的一个餐馆有个约会。

17 presidency   

n.总统(校长，总经理)的职位(任期)

参考例句：

• Roosevelt was elected four times to the presidency of the United States.罗斯福连续当选四届美国总统。
• Two candidates are emerging as contestants for the presidency.两位候选人最终成为总统职位竞争者。