Abortion law could soon be in the hands of states — creating new issues

Abortion¹ law could soon be in the hands of states — creating new issues

Transcript²

NPR's A Martinez speaks with NYU Professor of Law Melissa Murray about efforts in some state by lawmakers to keep patients from seeking abortion care across state lines, and other issues.

A MART?NEZ, HOST:

Abortion law could soon be in the hands of states. A draft opinion leaked earlier this week suggests the Supreme³ Court may soon overturn Roe⁴ v. Wade⁵, the landmark⁶ abortion ruling. If that happens, more than two dozen states are expected to ban abortion. Some lawmakers are also trying to keep people from pursuing options in states where abortion will remain legal. All this is gray legal territory, so let's turn to Melissa Murray, professor of law at New York University. Professor, thanks for joining us.

MELISSA MURRAY: Thanks for having me.

MART?NEZ: All right. Several weeks ago, a Missouri lawmaker introduced a bill that would let private citizens sue someone who helped a patient cross state lines for an abortion. Is that legal?

MURRAY: It is a gray area, as you say. There are a lot of different legal issues that would be raised if a bill like this were actually enacted⁷. Individuals have what is known as the right to travel, which means that they can move freely within the various states. There are some limitations, obviously, on the right to travel, but the idea is that you should be able to move from state to state and be able to access the benefits that the state offers to its citizens, with some limitations. But again, the idea of a state actually precluding⁸ someone from accessing benefits in another state, basically imposing⁹ their public policy on the other state, is something that I think is a little more far afield. And so I think there would be legal questions about that.

The idea of what it means to assist someone to leave the state is also something that moves us into some gray area. Is it simply driving someone across state lines to seek an abortion in a more hospitable¹⁰ state? Or is it something more anodyne¹¹, like donating money to an abortion fund that helps people to leave the state to seek abortion care? I think in a situation like that, where you're donating money but the money provides assistance, you could actually have some First Amendment¹² issues around the whole question of prohibiting that kind of assistance. So the Supreme Court has suggested that returning this to the states will settle this fraught¹³ conflict over abortion that has really gripped the nation for almost 40 years now. But it seems like it's really just going to exacerbate¹⁴ already existing conflicts and perhaps provide new conflicts that we haven't yet seen.

MART?NEZ: In general, how far can states go to legislate¹⁵ activity beyond their state lines?

MURRAY: Again, I think we're going to see how far they can go. And I think many of these states are willing to push the envelope and test this. But if you just look to our recent past, 1967, the Supreme Court struck down a ban on interracial marriage in Loving v. Virginia. What people don't realize is that the laws that were struck down in that case - it wasn't simply about banning interracial marriage. One of the Virginia laws that was challenged actually made it a crime for people to leave the state in order to transact¹⁶ interracial marriages elsewhere. This is sort of ripped from the same playbook. If another state offers a benefit that your state doesn't offer, can your state prohibit you from leaving you in order to seek that benefit if you're going to return to your home state?

MART?NEZ: You mentioned helping¹⁷ people go across state lines. I know a lot of companies are offering to pay for travel so their employees can find abortion care - Apple, Amazon, Citi, a growing list. Would that be legal if Roe was overturned?

MURRAY: Well, right now it's legal. But again, if the terms of these laws, like the proposed Missouri law, broadly construe¹⁸ what it means to assist someone, then that, too, could be off the table. And that, too, could be a violation¹⁹ of the corporation's rights to use its money in a manner of its choosing. I mean, think about Citizens United and this whole idea that corporations enjoy speech and are able to donate, and that is an expression of speech. This might be considered an expression of speech, too. So I think there are likely to be First Amendment issues if this notion of assistance goes so far as to prohibit individuals from supporting particular causes or even providing funding for their own employees to do this.

MART?NEZ: What about lawmakers who are trying to minimize access to abortion medication? What's likely to happen with that?

MURRAY: Well, so abortion medication lends us into the whole realm of administrative²⁰ law. And this has been an area where conservatives - the Trump²¹ administration, for example - was very exercised during the pandemic to limit access to medication abortion. The Biden administration changed its policies, so it sort of, you know, rolled things back from what the Trump administration had done. But individual states can do this through their own administrative agencies that regulate the distribution of pharmaceuticals²² and other drugs in their borders. And they can perhaps limit the distribution of those kinds of pharmaceuticals from other states from coming in. You could also have a conservative Congress, for example, passing laws that prohibit the use of the mails to distribute medication abortion. We had this back in the 1870s with the Comstock Act, which prohibited the transmission of articles intended for, quote-unquote, "immoral²³ purposes" across state lines using the Postal²⁴ Service. So there's a wide range of things that can be done to limit the distribution of the medication abortion protocols²⁵ through the mails and other means of transmission.

MART?NEZ: I know Texas provided an enforcement model for some states when it gave private citizens the authority to sue someone who sought an abortion. Could there be lawsuits²⁶ over those kinds of lawsuits?

MURRAY: Well, I think we can have lawsuits over lawsuits. Certainly it's likely if, for example, someone filed suit under that Texas law but did so maliciously²⁸, knowing that the individual they had named had not actually provided an abortion or assisted someone in providing an abortion. So you could imagine lots of lawsuits brought by people who were sort of hemmed²⁹ up in litigation because of a falsely brought lawsuit²⁷ or maliciously brought lawsuit, so we could have things like that. There could also be challenges to, you know, what it means to actually provide assistance. And so, again, these laws are written really broadly. They're untested as of yet. And I think they are going to be fertile ground for new lawsuits pushing and trying to understand what the scope of everyone's rights is at this point.

MART?NEZ: Melissa Murray is the Frederick and Grace Stokes Professor of Law at NYU. Professor, thanks.

MURRAY: Thank you.

1 abortion   

n.流产，堕胎

参考例句：

• She had an abortion at the women's health clinic.她在妇女保健医院做了流产手术。
• A number of considerations have led her to have a wilful abortion.多种考虑使她执意堕胎。

2 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

3 supreme   

adj.极度的，最重要的；至高的，最高的

参考例句：

• It was the supreme moment in his life.那是他一生中最重要的时刻。
• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。

4 roe   

n.鱼卵；獐鹿

参考例句：

• We will serve smoked cod's roe at the dinner.宴会上我们将上一道熏鳕鱼子。
• I'll scramble some eggs with roe?我用鱼籽炒几个鸡蛋好吗？

5 wade   

v.跋涉，涉水；n.跋涉

参考例句：

• We had to wade through the river to the opposite bank.我们只好涉水过河到对岸。
• We cannot but wade across the river.我们只好趟水过去。

6 landmark   

n.陆标，划时代的事，地界标

参考例句：

• The Russian Revolution represents a landmark in world history.俄国革命是世界历史上的一个里程碑。
• The tower was once a landmark for ships.这座塔曾是船只的陆标。

7 enacted   

制定（法律），通过（法案）( enact的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• legislation enacted by parliament 由议会通过的法律
• Outside in the little lobby another scene was begin enacted. 外面的小休息室里又是另一番景象。 来自英汉文学 - 嘉莉妹妹

8 precluding   

v.阻止( preclude的现在分词 )；排除；妨碍；使…行不通

参考例句：

9 imposing   

adj.使人难忘的，壮丽的，堂皇的，雄伟的

参考例句：

• The fortress is an imposing building.这座城堡是一座宏伟的建筑。
• He has lost his imposing appearance.他已失去堂堂仪表。

10 hospitable   

adj.好客的；宽容的；有利的，适宜的

参考例句：

• The man is very hospitable.He keeps open house for his friends and fellow-workers.那人十分好客，无论是他的朋友还是同事，他都盛情接待。
• The locals are hospitable and welcoming.当地人热情好客。

11 anodyne   

n.解除痛苦的东西，止痛剂

参考例句：

• It was their delight,their folly,their anodyne,their intellectual stimulant.这是他们的人生乐趣，他们的一时荒唐，他们的止痛药，他们的脑力刺激剂。
• Friendship is not only the condiment but also the anodyne of life.友谊是人生的调味品，也是人生的止痛药。

12 amendment   

n.改正，修正，改善，修正案

参考例句：

• The amendment was rejected by 207 voters to 143.这项修正案以207票对143票被否决。
• The Opposition has tabled an amendment to the bill.反对党已经就该议案提交了一项修正条款。

13 fraught   

adj.充满…的，伴有(危险等)的；忧虑的

参考例句：

• The coming months will be fraught with fateful decisions.未来数月将充满重大的决定。
• There's no need to look so fraught!用不着那么愁眉苦脸的！

14 exacerbate   

v.恶化，增剧，激怒，使加剧

参考例句：

• WMO says a warming climate can exacerbate air pollution.世界气象组织说，气候变暖可能会加剧空气污染。
• In fact efforts will merely exacerbate the current problem.实际上努力只会加剧当前的问题。

15 legislate   

vt.制定法律；n.法规，律例；立法

参考例句：

• Therefore,it is very urgent to legislate for the right of privacy.因此，为隐私权立法刻不容缓。
• It's impossible to legislate for every contingency.为每一偶发事件都立法是不可能的。

16 transact   

v.处理；做交易；谈判

参考例句：

• I will transact my business by letter.我会写信去洽谈业务。
• I have been obliged to see him；there was business to transact.我不得不见他，有些事物要处理。

17 helping   

n.食物的一份&adj.帮助人的，辅助的

参考例句：

• The poor children regularly pony up for a second helping of my hamburger. 那些可怜的孩子们总是要求我把我的汉堡包再给他们一份。
• By doing this, they may at times be helping to restore competition. 这样一来, 他在某些时候,有助于竞争的加强。

18 construe   

v.翻译，解释

参考例句：

• He had tried to construe a passage from Homer.他曾尝试注释荷马著作的一段文字。
• You can construe what he said in a number of different ways.他的话可以有好几种解释。

19 violation   

n.违反(行为)，违背(行为)，侵犯

参考例句：

• He roared that was a violation of the rules.他大声说，那是违反规则的。
• He was fined 200 dollars for violation of traffic regulation.他因违反交通规则被罚款200美元。

20 administrative   

adj.行政的，管理的

参考例句：

• The administrative burden must be lifted from local government.必须解除地方政府的行政负担。
• He regarded all these administrative details as beneath his notice.他认为行政管理上的这些琐事都不值一顾。

21 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

22 pharmaceuticals   

n.医药品；药物( pharmaceutical的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• the development of new pharmaceuticals 新药的开发
• The companies are pouring trillions of yen into biotechnology research,especially for pharmaceuticals and new seeds. 这些公司将大量资金投入生物工艺学研究，尤其是药品和新种子方面。 来自《简明英汉词典》

23 immoral   

adj.不道德的，淫荡的，荒淫的，有伤风化的

参考例句：

• She was questioned about his immoral conduct toward her.她被询问过有关他对她的不道德行为的情况。
• It is my belief that nuclear weapons are immoral.我相信使核武器是不邪恶的。

24 postal   

adj.邮政的，邮局的

参考例句：

• A postal network now covers the whole country.邮路遍及全国。
• Remember to use postal code.勿忘使用邮政编码。

25 protocols   

n.礼仪( protocol的名词复数 )；（外交条约的）草案；（数据传递的）协议；科学实验报告（或计划）

参考例句：

• There are also protocols on the testing of nuclear weapons. 也有关于核武器试验的协议。 来自辞典例句
• Hardware components and software design of network transport protocols are separately introduced. 介绍系统硬件组成及网络传输协议的软件设计。 来自互联网

26 lawsuits   

n.诉讼( lawsuit的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Lawsuits involving property rights and farming and grazing rights increased markedly. 涉及财产权，耕作与放牧权的诉讼案件显著地增加。 来自辞典例句
• I've lost and won more lawsuits than any man in England. 全英国的人算我官司打得最多，赢的也多，输的也多。 来自辞典例句

27 lawsuit   

n.诉讼，控诉

参考例句：

• They threatened him with a lawsuit.他们以诉讼威逼他。
• He was perpetually involving himself in this long lawsuit.他使自己无休止地卷入这场长时间的诉讼。

28 maliciously   

adv.有敌意地

参考例句：

• He was charged with maliciously inflicting grievous bodily harm. 他被控蓄意严重伤害他人身体。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• His enemies maliciously conspired to ruin him. 他的敌人恶毒地密谋搞垮他。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》

29 hemmed   

缝…的褶边( hem的过去式和过去分词 )； 包围

参考例句：

• He hemmed and hawed but wouldn't say anything definite. 他总是哼儿哈儿的，就是不说句痛快话。
• The soldiers were hemmed in on all sides. 士兵们被四面包围了。