美国国家公共电台 NPR 'Pope Cannot Claim He Was Misinformed': Chilean Abuse Survivor After Vatican Meeting

 

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

In recent days, Pope Francis has come face to face with the issue of sexual abuse in the church. Three survivors² spent several days with him in the Vatican, including a man named Juan Carlos Cruz.

JUAN CARLOS CRUZ: I know that the topic was very serious, but honestly, it was spending a week in the pope's residence with him living right on top of you and him coming down for lunch like it's nothing and spending hours with me. It was just an experience that I - I don't know. It just surpasses me.

MARTIN: The pope had faced widespread criticism for the issue of sex abuse in the church, and he ordered an investigation³ into what was happening in the Catholic Church in Chile. Cruz says the pope listened to his story and then told him this.

CRUZ: In this case, I was part of the problem. That's why you're here, and that's why I wanted to see you personally and tell you how sorry I am. And of course, I was a bit choked up, and he just let me be silent or cry, even, or he would just sit there with me and listen to me. And the almost three hours were a very, very frank conversation. It was just like I was talking to my grandfather.

MARTIN: So you got what you were looking for in some ways because he immediately apologized. Did that mean that you didn't confront him about what he knew about the man who abused you and the other priests around him who covered it up?

CRUZ: Not at all. I mean, obviously, the conversation immediately went to those topics, and he was very open. He even asked me and I - I mean, we talked about the culture of abuse and especially the culture of cover-up by bishops⁵. And I told him about some toxic⁶ people that he has around him.

MARTIN: Currently.

CRUZ: Currently, yeah - Cardinal⁷ Errazuriz, for example, the Chilean cardinal who is his counsel that's helping⁸ him reform the Curia.

MARTIN: The council of cardinals⁹, yeah.

CRUZ: Yes, exactly. And I was very frank.

MARTIN: You and others have alleged¹⁰ this wide-ranging cover-up of abuse that was perpetrated by a man named Fernando Karadima. And among the people you say helped cover up all this abuse is a bishop⁴, Juan Barros. But earlier this year, Pope Francis came out directly in his defense¹¹, and in doing so, ended up attacking you personally. Did you address that with Pope Francis?

CRUZ: Yes. The pope in January called me a liar¹². And first, he apologized for that, of course. But then we talked about it, and I said, Holy Father, you cannot imagine what this does to someone who is trying to tell the truth. I don't ever want for you to fall into what other bishops have been falling, which is blame the survivors, destroy the honor of many victims. And he agreed, of course. And I told him this was not only Barros who watched while we were abused. And the Cardinal Errazuriz, it's unbelievable that he is actually close to you when he has a whole history of covering up and being a terrible person. And that message that you are sending to the world - I don't think it's the one you should be sending.

MARTIN: So when it was all over, did the pope promise that there would be consequences for these people?

CRUZ: I believe that he is going to do something now. What he's going to do, I'll leave it up to him. I'm hoping that whatever he does in Chile means this is the beginning of the end of this culture of abuse and that that is not going to be tolerated anymore.

MARTIN: You wrote on Twitter, today, I have more hope in the future of our church, even though the task is enormous. What does give you hope - these assurances you believe the pope has given you?

CRUZ: Not only that. I met with some other cardinals, and Rachel, it was unbelievable for me to be telling them the perspective of someone who they never get to see, right? We're all names on paper, and here, a man in flesh and blood was telling them my experience and the urgency that there is to deal with this because this cannot wait. There are so many people that are dealing¹³ with this right now and that don't get to be heard and don't get to be nurtured¹⁴, and some end up killing¹⁵ themselves.

MARTIN: How has this changed your faith?

CRUZ: You know, I could not do what I do if it wasn't for my faith. It has kept me strong, and it has kept me a bit sane¹⁶. It has kept me thinking of others. The most important thing for me was to bring with me the pain, sorrow, the destruction of so many people's lives. I wanted to give the perspective of the survivor¹, especially for those who are invisible, that for many reasons don't dare to speak up.

MARTIN: Juan Carlos Cruz, thank you so much for talking with us.

CRUZ: Thank you.

MARTIN: Cruz recently spent several days in the Vatican with Pope Francis.

1 survivor   

n.生存者，残存者，幸存者

参考例句：

• The sole survivor of the crash was an infant.这次撞车的惟一幸存者是一个婴儿。
• There was only one survivor of the plane crash.这次飞机失事中只有一名幸存者。

2 survivors   

幸存者，残存者，生还者( survivor的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The survivors were adrift in a lifeboat for six days. 幸存者在救生艇上漂流了六天。
• survivors clinging to a raft 紧紧抓住救生筏的幸存者

3 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

4 bishop   

n.主教，（国际象棋）象

参考例句：

• He was a bishop who was held in reverence by all.他是一位被大家都尊敬的主教。
• Two years after his death the bishop was canonised.主教逝世两年后被正式封为圣者。

5 bishops   

（基督教某些教派管辖大教区的）主教( bishop的名词复数 )； （国际象棋的）象

参考例句：

• Each player has two bishops at the start of the game. 棋赛开始时，每名棋手有两只象。
• "Only sheriffs and bishops and rich people and kings, and such like. “他劫富济贫，抢的都是郡长、主教、国王之类的富人。

6 toxic   

adj.有毒的，因中毒引起的

参考例句：

• The factory had accidentally released a quantity of toxic waste into the sea.这家工厂意外泄漏大量有毒废物到海中。
• There is a risk that toxic chemicals might be blasted into the atmosphere.爆炸后有毒化学物质可能会进入大气层。

7 cardinal   

n.(天主教的)红衣主教；adj.首要的，基本的

参考例句：

• This is a matter of cardinal significance.这是非常重要的事。
• The Cardinal coloured with vexation. 红衣主教感到恼火，脸涨得通红。

8 helping   

n.食物的一份&adj.帮助人的，辅助的

参考例句：

• The poor children regularly pony up for a second helping of my hamburger. 那些可怜的孩子们总是要求我把我的汉堡包再给他们一份。
• By doing this, they may at times be helping to restore competition. 这样一来, 他在某些时候,有助于竞争的加强。

9 cardinals   

红衣主教( cardinal的名词复数 )； 红衣凤头鸟（见于北美，雄鸟为鲜红色）； 基数

参考例句：

• cardinals in scarlet robes 身披红袍的枢机主教
• A conclave of cardinals was held to elect the new Pope. 红衣主教团举行了秘密会议来选举新教皇。

10 alleged   

a.被指控的，嫌疑的

参考例句：

• It was alleged that he had taken bribes while in office. 他被指称在任时收受贿赂。
• alleged irregularities in the election campaign 被指称竞选运动中的不正当行为

11 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

12 liar   

n.说谎的人

参考例句：

• I know you for a thief and a liar!我算认识你了，一个又偷又骗的家伙！
• She was wrongly labelled a liar.她被错误地扣上说谎者的帽子。

13 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。

14 nurtured   

养育( nurture的过去式和过去分词 )； 培育； 滋长； 助长

参考例句：

• She is looking fondly at the plants he had nurtured. 她深情地看着他培育的植物。
• Any latter-day Einstein would still be spotted and nurtured. 任何一个未来的爱因斯坦都会被发现并受到培养。

15 killing   

n.巨额利润；突然赚大钱，发大财

参考例句：

• Investors are set to make a killing from the sell-off.投资者准备清仓以便大赚一笔。
• Last week my brother made a killing on Wall Street.上个周我兄弟在华尔街赚了一大笔。

16 sane   

adj.心智健全的，神志清醒的，明智的，稳健的

参考例句：

• He was sane at the time of the murder.在凶杀案发生时他的神志是清醒的。
• He is a very sane person.他是一个很有头脑的人。